Today the April 21, is the birth day of prophet Mohammad(pbuh).
All the Muslims people in Mosul are celebrating this anniversary.
There were a big official celebration in the governorate of Nineveh, transported by the Iraqi media (Al Iraqia; TV Nineveh).
The governor of Nineveh announced in his speak, in this occasion, the release of 110 prisoners who were arrested for suspicion of being terrorists and found to be innocents later on.
For the first time in Iraq (I guess) a responsible authority in Iraq apologize frankly in a publics and in front of the TV lens, to the prisoners, telling them they are arrested by mistake. And this mistake can happened in a circumstances like this.
He asked them to cooperate with the policemen in controlling the peace in the city!
This speaks received acceptance from all the audiences.
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Well Dr. Truth,
That's a good step, if they truly are innocent. There's millions of
prisoners the world over who always claim to be innocent and
of course, are guilty as sin.
So, do you have your own familial
celebration to celebrate Mohammed's birth day? Take the kids out to the local Iraqi version of Dairy Queen? Throw a party, invite the neighbors?
Offer a free day of cancer treatment at the cinic?
good to hear
By the way, the word is speech. A person speaks, but they give a speech.
good to hear this, and I hope all who are innocent are released, and all who are guilty stay in prison.
It's good that there is an apology for errors, I think. Certainly folks get arrested for "suspicion" and then released later after being found to be innocent. Errors happen. What is of some concern is the apparent rarity of apologies. It sounds like people are arrested and their neighbors and family may not be certain they will be treated fairly. The solution, of course, is to guarantee that anyone who is arrested will be given a fair hearing in a honest, trustworthy court. The job of the police should be to catch criminals but NOT to judge criminals. Judgement is a job for a court. I have heard little about courts in Iraq, either at this time or previously under Saddam. My impression is that there is no functioning court system at this time. Is that correct, Truth Teller?
I think we should all get together and buy a plane ticket for Moron99 to go to Iraq and see for himself... He says the most extraordianry things and I get the feeling he doesn't have a clue about what he is talking about...Would the Truth Teller be willing to show him around?...
mister ghost
This is not the first time the police released a large number of people arrested for suspicion of being terrorists. There number is very high, may be 1000 or more!!.
So, do you have your own familial celebration to celebrate Mohammed's birth day? Take the kids out to the local Iraqi version of Dairy Queen? Throw a party, invite the neighbors?
Did you have ever heared about the security in Mosul? or you also fooled by the media who say the security is improving?
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annonymous @ 11:34:52
Thank you for your correction, I really looked for this word in my memory by couldn't remembered it.
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john
Whenever there are explosion or shooting fire, the Iraqi police come and arrest a number of people who were by chance nearby the accident. Usually they choose the youth. and there excuse is: why they allow the insurgents or the terrorists to do what they did.do
About the sexual abuse, there is a talk in the city, about one situation when a religious man was confessed of being making sex with another man!(this is a crime in Islam), they said that the police took his mother (an old woman), his wife and his sister. and threatened to rape them in front of him to make him confess that way. There is no prove for this talk,but all the guys who know this person said he is very honest and respectable man.
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waldschrat
The solution, of course, is to guarantee that anyone who is arrested will be given a fair hearing in a honest, trustworthy court.
This solution, didn't happen in Iraq after the occupation!!!
"My impression is that there is no functioning court system at this time. Is that correct, Truth Teller?"
Yes it is correct.
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hurria
Those "mistakes" who survive their arrest and imprisonment are lucky to be released weeks, months, or years later with a curt "sorry for the 'mistake' ", and left to find their own way back home.
I know a doctor who was arrested by the American during the raid of his house by mistake. They make a mistake in the address, but they arrested the guy, they kept him in prison for about a week, the beat every day and after that poured cold water over him (that was in winter at january). When they realesed him, they throw him in far away area in his underwear before the midnight. Some saw him and thought that he is an insane.
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moron99
It is a clear sign that security and stability are improving.
I invite you again to stay for few days in Mosul. You will see things much better than heard about them.
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Truth Teller - I think your family might be interested in some facts about education opportunities in Sacramento.
Sacramento has several fairly good shools offering undergraduate degrees and a State University offering bacehelors and advanced degrees in engineering, nursing, and other fields. There is also a very respectable University nearby in Davis that offers degrees in medicine, pharmacy, veterinary medicine, and many fields of engineering.
Here are some links:
University of California at Davis
http://www.ucdavis.edu/index.html
California State University, Sacramento
http://www.csus.edu/index2.stm
American River College
http://www.arc.losrios.edu/
Consumnes River College
http://www.crc.losrios.edu/
The sort of "born again" type of crap Moron99 posts here would really make me laugh were it not for the fact that we are talking about real people in Iraq being abused and killed by American troops. What scares the hell out of me is the possibility that there are a few million similar robotic brainwashed idiots in the US, all convinced of Uncle Sam's good works in the Middle East. Can you immagine the incredible amount of destruction a combination of such crowd and a moronic President can cause to the world?...
could you please answer a question for me? Why in this blog are all insurgants or Iraqis, poor little mistreated angels and all Americans evil monsters with horns? There are good and bad in all groups. Could it be if more Iraqis were helping to defeat the insurgancy there would be less mistaken people being arrested?
Anonymous,
The difference is simple to understand: Americans are occupying Iraq, a country that had done them no harm. Insurgents are Iraqis trying to free their country from the occupiers. No matter how bad individual insurgents may be, they are liberators. No matter how kind individual American soldiers may be, they are the occupiers and the oppressors. All around the world people are, naturally, on the side of the occupied against the occupiers. Americans could free themselves from this unpleasantness by leaving Iraq as soon as possible. Americans must be pretty insensitive to fail to see that they are on the side of wrong in Iraq, like they were on the side of wrong in Vietnam. Will it take another 40.000 American casualties (like in Vietnam) and other tens of thousands of Iraqi casualties for Americans to understand this?
hurria - you are correct. "American River "College" was previously called "American River Junior College" when I attended there! Further, "California State University - Sacramento" was formerly called "Sacramento State College". The names were changed for reasons I do not completely understand, but American River and Consumnes still only offer undergraduate degrees (A.A., etc) rather than bachelors (B.A., etc) degrees. I should say that I found the professors at American River more helpful to students on average than those at Sacramento State or U.C. Berkeley. There is another school, "Sacramento City College", in Sacramento but I deliberately omitted it from my list because the mathematics department has a horrible reputation for poor teaching.
How is the electricity supply now in Mosul? Is it getting any better?
moron99 - They murder Iraqis because it's easier than murdering Americans and the objective of terrorism is to instill fear. Make no mistake, they also attack Americans, Americans are just harder to kill than unarmed innocent Iraqis. It is also easier to extort money and silence from Iraqis by threats and kidnapping than from Americans. The population must love or fear the killers enough to hide them and not hate them enough to reveal their secrets. It could be unsafe for an honest citizen to oppose them openly. The safest way for an Iraqi to oppose them would be in secret and anonymously. That eliminates cell phone and internet communication. I wonder how reliable the mail service is in Iraq is these days. If I were the Americans I would encourage people to oppose the insurgency by mail. I wonder if they even distribute a mailing address (not that I doubt the intelligence of soldiers).
Obviously some insurgents adopt terrorist tactics. But, as it is generally accepted, there is no single insurgent organization with a single control centre. Some insurgent groups attack only American troops, others will attack Iraqis. We must condemn the latter and defend the former. In fact, only those who limit their attacks to American troops can be considered real insurgents. The others are simply terrorists.
Here's a joke my wife told me:
The minister asked the congregation to raise their hands if they had forgiven their enemies. About half held up their hands.
He then repeated his question. Now about 80 percent held up their hands.
Again, he repeated his question. All responded, except one elderly lady.
"Mrs. Henry, are you not willing to forgive your enemies?"
"I don't have any."
"Mrs. Henry, that is very unusual. How old are you?"
"Ninety-three." she replied.
"Mrs. Henry, please come down in front and tell the congregation how a person cannot have an enemy in the world?"
The little sweetheart of a lady tottered down the aisle, turned to the congregation and said, "I outlived the bums."
For those who like to think that Americans are peace loving people:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8638.htm
John,
You know full well what Lights was trying to say. It is up to the Iraqis to do their part and turn in the people that they know are killing those who are trying to help them. The post was not at all confusing! Maybe it just made a little too much sense for you?
bruno - It seems that justification of attacks against the "proxy" government sinstalled by an invader depends on the proper differentiation between a "proxy government" which serves the invader and a "legitimate interim government' which a well-intentioned invader (a "liberating army") might try to facilitate and support in all good faith.
The fact is that Iraqis are killing Iraqis. If what I read in the news is accurate, more Iraqis have been killed and are being killed by their fellow Iraqis than by US troops. Insurgents seem to have little concern for collateral damage, willingly detonating bombs in areas crowded with non-compatants, innocents by anyone's definition. Murder is the word for most of the killing, nothing more noble. The chaos and danger that besets Iraqis should be mourned, not justified.
Let's take the theoretical consideration a little further. In America's history Americans killed each other in factional disagreements during the Revolutionary war and during the Civil war and it's aftermath. Revolutionists killed Loyalists and vice versa. Sessionists and Unionists killed each other in the Civil war, and in it's aftermath, when the government in defeated Sessionist states was replaced, there was more murder afoot.
Iraq has a history of settling political conflicts using bullets, not ballots. That's how Saddam gained power if I understand correctly. I'm sure America is to blame for that too in some people's opinion, but the fact is that settling matters with ballots instead of bullets results in fewer casualties, less damage to real estate, and is generally all around more civilized. It would be nice if more Iraqis would try it and choose peaceful means to settle matters rather than violence.
Sadly, I suspect it will not happen right away. It seems likely that many more Iraqis will be murdered by their countrymen before this is over.
"Look into history and find examples where the US engaged in nation building. Judge US intention by their past actions rather than by the words of propagandists"
I look to Vietnam, to Chile, to Cuba, to Nicaragua, to El Salvador, to Guatemala, to Haiti, to the Israeli v. Palestinian question, and see everywhere American naked imperialism and self-serving policies and actions. In all these instances the US fought against local legitimate movements, most (but not all) of them democratic or, at least, popular in origin. More often than not American actions were on the side of undemocratic, corrupt political parties. Not so long ago the US gave their support to a blatant undemocratic coup in Venezuela against the democratically elected Hugo Chavez government. So democratically elected that he won again when the opposition tried a recall referendum. Based on this experience why should we believe that the US are well meaning in Iraq? If democracy prevails in Iraq it will be in spite of, and not because of, the US intervention. The insurgency is playing a fundamental role in preventing the US from highjacking government in Iraq.
Here's an interesting perspective on America's Iraq "adventure" fron Viet Nam:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050426/wl_nm/vietnam_anniversary_iraq_dc_1
It seems they are inclined to consider everybody's tactics (US, Saddam, insurgents, the whole cast of characters) as misguided and faulty.
I can agree with that! Things could be better!
Chile: who was democratic, Allende or Pinochet?
Venezuela: who is democratic, Hugo Chavez or the oligarchy?
Vietnam: the Vietcong were not democratic as we understand democracy, but they had the people's support.
Nicaragua: the Sandinistas had the popular support, but the US didn't like them. Now, the Sandinistas are about to win power back.
Cuba: can anyone believe Castro could stay this long in power, with the mighty US doing everything possible to overthrow him, if he didn't enjoy popular support?
Haiti: the US helped overthrow president Aristides, and now we see that he has real support in his country.
How many more examples must one give of US siding against popular forces in so many countries in the world? Why is it that in an increasing number of Latin American countries forces hostile to the US are gaining power? Certainly because those that side with the US and are helped by them are the oligarchy, the exploiters, the tyrants. Soon, only Colombia will be willing to serve American interests in that part of the world. Why is that, if the US are such friends of democracy and justice? Is everybody crazy?
Moron99, you are truly moronic.
The example you ignorantly keep spewing out is Afghanistan. Just some days ago (as reported in the first page of the Italian 'Corriere della Sera' newspaper yesterday) there, in the province of Badhakshan, the first official sentence for 'adultery' against a woman after your 'liberation' was carried out. She was stoned to death; the co-offender was instead flogged and released. In 'liberated' Afghanistan not much has changed; women are in the same situation as before (go & have a look at www.rawa.org/); instead of only one dictatorial power, you have a-plenty, the warlords, who indeed rule the land (elected president Karzai is just the mayor of the centre of Kabul, and is alive only thanks to his American Dynocorp bodyguards); the whole economy is based on the opium cultivation, ever-growing since your 'liberation', so that today's Afghanistan is the biggest supplier of heroin & morphin in the world. Some 'liberation'!
So you keep belching out your empty & mindless propaganda, and you fake that Afghanistan is a 'success story', and an example for the Iraqis (LOL!!!). No Iraqi, apart from your pawns at 'Iraq The Minion', is as stupid as to believe it. They instead see the dreadful reality of the 'liberation' you brought them, and the delicious fruits of it, including the 'democratically' elected Shiite religious parties enforcing Shaaria law over half the country (at least Saddam, being secular, didn't interfere with the private lives, beliefs and lifestyles of people). They see that as a result of your criminal war and occupation their State was destroyed, together with any security, and that today there is in Iraq neither a 'legal' nor a 'legitimate' Government.
Afghanistan? Yes, now Iraq is going to resemble Afghanistan very fast... (as possibly your Neo-Con strategists desired from day one): some 'success'!
April 27, 2005
* China helps Afghanistan train diplomats, economic professionals
* UN critic of U.S. abuse in Afghanistan forced out of job
* Six killed in Taliban rebel raid: Afghan police
* Passenger plane catches fire on Kabul airport
* WFP plans to extend its program in Afghanistan
* Afghan girl instant author
* 5 Afghans released from Guantanamo Bay Jail
April 26, 2005
* British troops to target Afghan opium trade
* Former grammar school boy gets 13 years for shoe bomb plot
* 9-11 victim's mom funds Afghan school
* Romanian soldier killed in Afghan convoy blast
* Taliban threaten to destroy TAP gas pipeline
April 25, 2005
* Afghan refugees demand participation in parliamentary polls
* Taliban commander surrenders
* Afghan province bans motorbikes to beat Taliban
* Heroin shipment seized in Afghanistan
* Afghanistan to issue new mobile licences
* Principals participate in the Afghan Teacher Education Project
April 24, 2005
* General Pace, first Marine tapped to lead Joint Chiefs of Staff
* Former Taliban official surrenders in Afghanistan
* US detains innocent German
* Moscow pledges security support to Kabul in September Parliamentary elections
* Afghanistan becoming safer for returning refugees: OGATA
* Afghanistan's Taliban launching coordinated attacks, says US
April 22, 2005
* Germany, Afghanistan sign agreement on investment protection
* Turkey And Afghanistan Have Perfect Political Relations
* Afghanistan notch up big win in ACC Cup
* Afghan Vice President criticizes interference in Kabul affairs
* Afghans urged to change to iodized salt
April 21, 2005
* U.N. Rights Monitoring Still Needed in Afghanistan: HRW
* Taliban claim killing 24 US, Afghan troops in Zabul, Kandahar
* NGOs form 'parallel' government in Afghanistan: Minister
* 8 Suspected Taliban Killed in Afghanistan
April 20, 2005
* US. Forces Arrest 24 Suspected Afghan Militants
* Afghanistan seeks China's help in its economic progress
* Myers wants media to cover positives in Iraq, Afghanistan
* Dustum joins Afghan government
* Taliban kill eight Afghan soldiers, one Pak driver
April 19, 2005
* Thousands of Afghan animals Killed in animal plague
* Afghan province bans smoking in public places
* Obstacles ahead as women take the wheel in Afghanistan
* War on opium falters in southern Afghanistan Taliban stronghold
* Afghan delegation tours Pakistan to promote repatriation
April 18, 2005
* Taliban deny any talks with Afghan govt, US
* Advertising generating revenue as Afghan market develops
* US warns of 'desperate' Taleban
* Russian troops start withdrawing from Afghan-Tajik border
* Advertising generating revenue as Afghan market develops
As one can see on this site (http://paktribune.com/news/index.php?hId=7) there are good and bad news from Afghanistan. It is typical of some American propaganda agents to refer only those news that suit their propaganda goals.
Albatroz,
For every weight there needs to be an equal and opposite weight in order to achieve balance. I would prefer to talk about both positive and negative but the weight of negativity in this blog is so great that even an all positive spin by one or two individuals does not begin to counterbalance it.
If we were to honestly and fully explore both positive and negative we would conclude that Iraq has 20 miles of bad road no matter which direction they choose. We would further conclude that the road most likely to achieve a positive outcome is through the existing government and the termination of insurgent activities. Frankly, the new government scares me a bit. The anti-baathist talk amoung them is dangerously close to being a call to arms. I fear that if the insurgents continue to provoke them then they will launch upon a clensing that affects a lot of good people along with the bad. I don't think it is a question of whether or not the insurgency will be defeated, it is a question of how many innocent people the insurgents will kill before the government takes strong action and how many innocent people will get caught in the crossfire when they do.
M99
Anonymous,
The world would be a lot better off if some countries would stop acting as if they had a God given right to interfere with matters that fall under sovereign responsabilities. Short of massive violation of human rights - in which case the UN are the proper instance to intervene -, or imminent threat against another state's security, there should be no interference in sovereign states' affairs. My experience and study tell me that, on the long term, no government can prevail against the will of the people. Most non-democratic governments must therefore enjoy some amount of support by the people. We should therefore not take upon ourselves to fix what is not broken. We may criticize, but we must keep a hands off policy. Unfortunately, for less than innocent reasons, the US keeps interfering in other peoples' affairs and is, therefore, an increasingly hated country. No less unfortunate are the likely consequences, for all of us, of such a stupid attitude.
Two and a quarter centuries after independence, how many Presidents of the US were catholic, hispanic, black or female? What about American-Indian rights? What happened to all those treaties signed with the Indian nations? What about the poverty in black urban areas? What about the lack of opportunities for most Americans who are not WASP? If some Americans are so keen on redressing past wrongs, why not start at home? Can you convince us that a country which is incapable of doing the right thing at home is capable, or willing, to do it abroad? You must be joking!...
Dear Moron99, so you lamely pass on to us readers (and to Iraqis like Truth Teller, our host, and Hurria, who for sure know better) these excerpts from letters written by a ghost (the supposed al-Zarqawi, who supposedly died, according to most sources, in March 2003 near Halabja), supposedly intercepted in 2004 by the Americans. Even a lame propaganda agent like you are should know that the famous 'al-Zarqawi letters' are a psy-ops fake. Those who organise death squads & sectarian murders, bomb Shiite mosques or Christian churches, try to provoke a sectarian civil war in Iraq, are 'former Baathists' for sure: only that they are at the US service, the followers of the now dethroned Allawi, YOUR Baathists, under the direction of Negroponte, the criminal terrorist of Central American fame, and his successors in the US occupation; in that way you have some excuse to justify your occupation in the eyes of the world, through stirring up an Iraqi civil war. "Captured insurgent document", Moron? US psy-ops document, all right.
One of the important differences between Hurria and Moron99 is that Hurria is logical and convincing, and Moron99 sounds like a second rate CIA agent who thinks that "evidence" is anything that might convince a ten year old child (presuming he is not very bright...). I still don't know whether Moron99 is really dumb, or thinks that WE are dumb. Otherwise one would expect him to make a real effort to come up with something more intelligent. His arguments are of the kind one would expect to be used on some hill-billy from Alabama who believes that Bush has a direct line to the Good Lord and thinks he lives in a democracy. I wish he would spare us the crude propaganda he has been trying to feed us...
Another example of American responsible behaviour in Iraq (a description, by Italian journalist Sgrena, of events around her shooting by American soldiers, based on her own words):
"Anybody who has covered the Iraq war has known - or has seen - checkpoint hell, where nervous American soldiers fire on anything that moves. The Toyota Corolla with Calipari and Sgrena was hit by only between eight and 10 rounds. Both Calipari and Sgrena were sitting in the back seat. Calipari was hit by a direct shot in the temple.
There was no checkpoint, Sgrena told Klein. "It was simply a tank parked on the side of the road that opened fire on us. It was not a checkpoint. They didn't try to stop us, they just shot us. They have a way to signal us to stop, but they didn't give us any signals to stop and they were at least 10 meters off the street to the side."
The crucial part is that Sgrena says the Toyota was shot from behind - which contradicts the Pentagon version of soldiers shooting in self-defense. According to Klein, "Sgrena really stressed that the bullet that injured her so badly came from behind, entered through the back of the car. And the only person who was not severely injured in the car was the driver, and she said that this is because the shots weren't coming from the front ... They were driving away."
This might explain why the Pentagon apparently blocked the Italian government from inspecting the Toyota, even though the Italian government had bought the car from the rental agency after the shooting.
Sgrena is 100% sure: "It was not self-defense. The soldiers were to the right of us on the side of the road, they started to shoot from the right and kept shooting from behind. Most of the shots came from behind. Calipari was shot from the right and I was shot in the shoulder from behind. When we stopped, they were behind us. We could see that all the back windows of the car were broken from behind ... They didn't try to stop the car and they shot at least 10 bullets at the level of people sitting inside the car. If Calipari had not pushed me down they could have killed me."
According to US sources, "American soldiers followed rules of engagement to the letter and therefore were not to blame. The Pentagon ruled that its soldiers used hand and arm signals, flashed white lights and fired warning shots to try to stop the Toyota Corolla carrying Sgrena and Calipari, which was "speeding" toward "a checkpoint". The soldiers then shot into the Toyota's engine block when the driver did not stop. Calipari was not part of the engine block, but he was shot anyway: a "horrible accident".
Whom do you believe? The Italian journalist or the "reliable" Pentagon sources?
albatroz - I believe neither. THe journalist has political motivation as a reporter for a left wing journal to exagerate. The soldiers have motivation to conceal any errors. Clearly enough an error was made because innocent people were shot. A checkpoint should be clearly identified with signs and barriers, not simply some people waving their arms and flashing their headlights. A driver, on the other hand, should be extra careful when driving near armed vehicles or troops.
an italian said:
"Those who organise death squads & sectarian murders, bomb Shiite mosques or Christian churches, try to provoke a sectarian civil war in Iraq, are 'former Baathists' for sure: only that they are at the US service, the followers of the now dethroned Allawi
I have to add a real accident which happened a couple of months ago: "A report by the cheif of the police of Rabe'aa,(a small city at the Iraqi-Syrian border) says that there are many accidents of shooting on the police of that area from the Peshmarga (an armed Kurd militia). The Kurd official said: the shooting against the police was from the new Iraqi army side (mostly build up from Allawi fellower who trained in th US).
Another report about the killing of some of religious men, doctors and university lecturers which happened in Mosul. All the evidences point to involvement of the National Kurdistan Union in these crimes, which is headed by Jalal Talabani.
The crimes committed by the Al Theeb force in Mosul,(part of the Iraqi police, previously known as Al Bader force), are well known now by all the citizen of Mosul.
Therefore, the terrorists are not the insurgents (who may made some mistakes), but some other groups, mostly supported by the americans.
waldschrat
"I believe neither. THe journalist has political motivation as a reporter for a left wing journal to exagerate. The soldiers have motivation to conceal any errors."
there is a big difference between a report by journalist and a report by a government? The USA the strongest on the world!!
If a Jornalist had a political motivation to be biased, the USA government shouldn't.
Moron99 is pathetic. Americans on this blog are reduced to a desperate defense of the undefensable. They can't convince anybody and sound increasingly unconvinced themselves. Not really the stuff of mighty empire builders... I guess that as soon as the draft is brought back voices such as Moron's will quickly disappear...
For the "true believers" in American might:
"But if the draft advocates eventually convince the administration that a conscripted army is viable, I believe they would still have to overcome a second layer of reluctance among decision-makers in charge of military policy: a fear that the draft will specifically alienate those who currently endorse the war in Iraq. Pro-war partisans rest much of their support of administration foreign policy on the expectation that the January 30 election was a turning point, that the battle of Fallujah disabled the resistance, that Iraqi troops will be ready to handle the guerrillas in the not-too-distant future - and that US troops will soon be brought home at least reasonably victorious. The reinstitution of a draft would constitute an admission that these beliefs are so many illusions. In all likelihood, therefore, any relaxation of the unequivocal opposition to the draft in the administration would indeed precipitate a sharp erosion of the war's already eroding base. Opposition might then reach the critical mass needed to make withdrawal "thinkable".
Read further here:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GD29Ak03.html
Moron, 4/28, 9:02:01 AM, & ‘lights’: You claim that I wrote: "Allawi and the US are organizing the insurgency".
No, what I wrote is that the US & Allawi are organising terrorism & sectarian attacks.
The Iraqi insurgency, targeting instead American troops, foreign mercenaries, and puppet militia troops, is patriotic, and fully legitimate in the eyes of most people outside the US. What would many people in the world do, if their countries were invaded by an army of foreign bullies & mass murderers? There is such a right as the right to resist.
Waldschrat, "The journalist has political motivation as a reporter for a left wing journal to exaggerate": 1) you conveniently forget that Sgrena's testimony is identical to the one of the slightly wounded driver, who is no left-winger at all, but a Major in the Italian military secret service (never heard of a left wing Carabiniere!); 2) what the US patrol did to the Italians is precisely the standard thing they do to common Iraqis every day, only that Iraqi civilians murdered by these American cowards do not make the headlines in the West (unless an embedded journalist happens to be present, like when they destroyed a family near Tal Afar).
Bruno: Non sapevo che parlassi Italiano! Questi guerrafondai infernali d’Oltreatlantico sono davvero incredibili. Con menti di bambini di tre - cinque anni, creduli, arroganti e aggressivi; più scimmioni che esseri umani, bevono e diffondono ciecamente la propaganda inventata dal loro Governo. (Truth & Hurria: English translation available on demand).
Moron, 4/28, 10:20:04 PM: You wrote: “First, the government will cleanse itself”.
The Iraqis saw the beginning of it, indeed! That honest & disinterested man Chalabi has become the Minister of Oil (LOL! They should have given him the Treasury as well!).
Hello, Truth Teller,
I am reading about the most recent violence in Bagdad-I know it is a big city, but I worry about your family, pray for them, and hope they are safe...I will rest better when I know they are back home and safe(er) with you..
Rockie
moron99
yes, I support any decision that the elected governemnt makes. The track record of the government to date has been exceptional. If you examine their choices of action and inaction, they are clearly trying to unite Iraq and move it forward into an era of peace, prosperity, and tolerance.
This quote is very strange, it is opposite to the reality 100%, I don't understand how could you believe in that.
The elelcted government are clearly trying to divide Iraq into small subdivision under the name of federal union, and move Iraq into a civil war under the name of cleansing. The early signs of that were appeared clearly in the behaviour of the government militants, as the ING, the Iraqi army, and the Iraqi police.
I withhold judgement on Chalabi. The US administration government may hate him because he outsmated them and made them look foolish. And he would obviously stab America in the back without hesitation.
I agree with you he may stab America in the back with hesitation, as he stab the whole Iraq in the back with hesitation.
BTW the elected government have the same ability as al Chalabi. America, you have to protect your back well.
For democracy (American style in Iraq) at work, read:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GD30Ak01.html
In today's news I saw the following:
"Insurgents set off at least 17 bombs in Iraq on Friday, killing at least 50 people, including three U.S. soldiers, in a series of attacks aimed at shaking Iraq's newly formed government."
Only 3 Americans out of 50 dead. It seems the insurgents are not waging war on Americans, they are waging war on Iraqis. If not, their aim is incredibly bad.
Trutheller - you seem very skeptical about the good intentions of the new government, or at least the intentions of the individuals in the parliment or assembly or congress or whatever it is called (and I assume the word is in Arabic, not English).
I can only say that skepticism about politicians is always reasonable. Mark Twain said "No man's life or property are safe when Congress is in session." It was intended as a joke, but it is rather true. It seems that there has been a lot of very factional bargaining in the government so far. Ethnic and religious tensions seem pretty strong. In America I think geographic and economic considerations are more important. Part of the reason this is not the case in Iraq is probably the nature of the elections and the method of selecting members of the assembly. Political parties were organized and supported based on ethnc, cultural and religous differences and assembly members represent these interests, not a geographic area. There is no "Senator from Mosul" who depends only on the approval of the voters of Mosul (or Basra or Falluja). Instead there is "Sunni Senator #7" and "Kurdish Senator #3" and so forth, if I understand correctly. So this is what they think about, and this is what they argue about, it seem.
Ultimately, something will evolve that is acceptable to the majority, I assume. I asume nothing will ever be acceptable to the insurgents - I expect them to be exterminated, but if they somehow win I expect them to continue to kill others and themselves, because that is what violent people do.
The "rule of the majority" is only a good idea if the majority respects minorities. Individuals are each a "minority of one" in the final analysis. Right now the argument in the Iraqi assembly has less respect for minorities than might be wished. Even so, it seems most politicians are willing to give "lip service" to respect for minorities. I gess they understand the concept, even if it does not seem immediately consistent with their personal desires and the desires of their party.
I'm more worried about corruption in the police and military than the congress, actually. The congress/assembly can be guided by a constitution, or by compromise, or by god, but it can not act without the approval and assistance of the military and police. I have heard believable reports of brutality and bribery in the police. Iraq right now is a brotal place, so I can understand butality, but bribery is a very bad sign, sugegsting the police may not be loyal.
Pardon me, I retired today, 27 years on the same job and I will no longer go to the same office every day, my life is changing and I am a bit confused and worried, and sleepy and stupid. I will try to write something more intelligent tomorrow or the next day.
Yes , People who are living in the middle of the events feels it's difficulties more than those hearing about it. That is why we are skeptic and sensetive about our new life after the
war. In fact we are still depressed about future of our children.I hope you could notice that very well in truth teller posts, may be majority of ( Iraqi bloggers) are having same sense and very conscious in praising our new life . We just want to see the light in the end of the tunnel at least to get some relax
Waldschrat,
Contrarily to Moron99, I am no expert on Iraq. But I would dare to say that community in Iraq is a lot more important than the individual. There are tribal Iraqis. There are sunni, shiite Iraqis. There are Kurds, that are not (or do not want to be) Iraqi. Iraqi borders were not the result of Iraqi decisions, but were imposed by the British. There isn't, as yet, a sense of nationhood involving all those we decided to call Iraqis. A democracy, if successfully installed in Iraq, will not solve immediately this situation. On the contrary, it will make those divisons more evident. And without a sense of nationhood there will be no Iraq, and "Iraqis" will tend to kill each other along ethnic or religious lines. Schocking as that may sound, in those circumstances, an authoritarian regime can be more successful at nation building than a democracy. What we are seeing in Iraq is not very different from what we saw in former Yugoslavia. Croats, Serbs, Slovenians, etc., didn't want to stay together as a country, because of that lack of a sense of nationhood. With their usual ignorance and lack of sensitivity, Americans ignore all this and think that their brand of "democracy" will be the snake oil that will solve all problems. Iraq may be saved by a charismatic and authoritarian figure, if Iraqis are lucky enough to find one such person. Iraq will not be saved by American idiots imposing a "democracy".
Since I am no expert on Iraq - contrarily to Moron99 - I may be completely wrong in my assessment, but I would like to read the opinion of our Iraqi host and friends, about this.
albatroz
"There are tribal Iraqis. There are sunni, shiite Iraqis. There are Kurds, that are not (or do not want to be) Iraqi."
Let us start from the begining.
Befor the era of Saddam, the power were in the hand of civilized urban people. There were tribe, and tribe custom ruled the tribe members, but not in the cities, and definitly not in the regions under the controll of the government.
When Saddam came to power, he changed every thing on purpose, as he was a villager, every thing was very clear from his speechs and behaviour (I think we should not take this as simple as it looked to be).
There are Sunni and Shiite Iraqi. Yes that is wright, but no body think about that before the occupation, no body ever say this person have this position because he is from this side or the other. This distinction, come with the American troops over an American tank, the western media exaggerate the matter, and the people started to think about it seriously.
The kurds, I have too many kurd friends, they are very keen to hold their sense ofnationality as Iraqi.
Again the idea of being non Iraqis, or want to be so, comes with the occupation. Som ebody may say there were a war between the Kurds and the iraqi governments since the creation of Iraq as a country. Yes there were such war, but with very minority of kurds, the majority are with a unified Iraq.
We had tried another type of democracy, and it worked for thousands of years, that is the Islamic democracy.
A real Islamic, not that which is found now in some Islamic country.
I think, if foreign countries (USA, Iran, and any other) leave us alone, every thing will be alright, there will be few troubles at first then every thing will be OK.
Truth Teller,
Pardon my curiosity, but how does that old Islamic democracy work?
albartoz
I didn't understand in politics, but I can give you a hints about how it worked.
The heads of the tribes, the religious men, the army leaders and every one who was well known in honesty and loyalty (a selected members of the population), Joined together and chose one of them as a supposed leader, and then announced that name to all the people, any one who have objection have the right to say it. If no objection, the name announced as an official leader, and every one obliged to obey him, unless he did some thing against Islam, or against the direction of the Quraan which should be followed strictly.
here is a quote from the speech of the first khalif in Islam (Abu Bakir Al-Siddiq), he said: "I have been chosen your khalif, but I am not the best among you. Obey me as I obey the Allah (God) in you, If I disobey him, I have no right to ask your obedience."
Hmmm...a person chosen because of thier devotion to Allah (God), thier honesty and humility and thier promise to do the right thing or be held accountable...that works for me !!!
I think it’s become clear, after reading the rantings of “an italian”, albatroz, bruno and others, that this really isn’t about Iraq for them. It’s about America. (Vietnam, the Native Americans, McDonalds? What does that have to do with Iraq in 2005? And do you really want to get into a discussion of Europe’s history over the last several hundred years? Didn’t think so.)
People like them make it clear in everything they say that they couldn’t care less about what happens to Iraq or Iraqis. Any neutral observer can see it. All they care about is seeing America fail. They are obsessed with America. It’s kind of flattering, actually, that they care so much. It must just gnaw at them every day. You can practically smell the frustration on them. The movies they watch, the TV shows, the McDonalds on every corner, the very Internet they write on, the fact that they’re writing in English… it must just kill them that their own cultures have been subsumed by America. And so they lash out like frustrated toddlers. It doesn’t bother me, though. Just like with a tantrum-throwing toddler yelling “I hate you, Mommy”, you can’t take everything they say seriously. Just smile and humor them.
I do so love the fact that we’re so “in their heads”, though. :-)
ted,
"And do you really want to get into a discussion of Europe’s history over the last several hundred years?"
No problem. We behaved pretty badly on many occasions, but we finally learned that to respect other nations means recognizing their right to be different. That's a lesson you are seemingly very far yet from learning, and that's why we are here to assist you. Don't be the kind of jerks we were and go home.
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