Wednesday, June 29, 2005

Update

Bruno

Thank you for your comments. I took a decision not to respond to strykerdad comments, his way in discussion is very irritating, but as he lately offer to help Iraqi patients, I have to reconsider my decision. I may understood him wrongly.

I have those pictures of the Spider bites (the camel spider). I was hesitating to publish them, but your comment encouraged me to do so.


















pmusu

Hi from Iraq
thank you for your wishes, the people in Iraq wish you and all the people of the Island of Malta the same.



strykerdad

"TT, has anyone from your group tried to contact anyone connected to the Task force? I am having some trouble understanding how a clinic connected to a large hospital and with funds to spend is unable to obtain such a commonly available medical appliance. Is that true of all similar items?"

I am sure you will have some trouble understanding how the situation is here in Iraq. You believe what you want, and every other thing is just a lie.

Off course no one of my group tried to contact any one connected to the Task force. The reason we don't trust that they are here to help, or at least that is what we feel.
BTW the Oncology hospital is not a large one, it is the smallest hospital in Mosul, there is no funds to spend in any way. When I say "we don't want money because we have enough", I meant by we, the patients and the staff working in the Ostomy Unit.
The lack of Ostomy appliances is a minor thing among the lack of Medicines, mainly the Cytotoxic drugs, and the lack of Narcotic analgesic used to relieve cancer pain.

Most of the Hospital in Mosul are Governmental including the Oncologyand Nuclear Medicine Hospital. That mean they receive their supplies of medicines and medical appliances from the Ministry of Health, not through any organization. Even the items reached the hospital as assistants from other Organizations, they should inform the MOH about them.

"TT seems less than wildly enthused by the offers of help, but as others have pointed out, there may be many different reasons for that apparent lack."

Sure, I am not so excited by the offer of help, because we were disappointed several times before, many promises but nothing happened. In addition, you and all the warmongers consider me/us your enemy, your duty is to kill not to help, the picture of a marine killing a wounded person in Falluja is still in front of my eyes. How a killer can be so humanitarian.
Also my request was to heiko who offer to help by himself.

As a matter of fact, if I have the chance to make a request I probably chose the availability of the medicines, specially the Cytotoxic and the major narcotic analgesic.

95 comments:

Dan said...

TT:

I was betten by a brown recluse spider (loxosceles reclusa)a couple of years ago. The injury develops exactly like the one you show.

After the injury turned gangrenous and got about 1/2 inch across, with much redness and swelling, I showed it to a doctor.

The doctor gave me an injection and it healed itself after a few days leaving an indented scar. Had I NOT received the injection, the injury would have developed like the one you show.

I observe that you do not provide adequate medical assistance to spider bites. I submit that if you were truly interested in helping freedom-loving Iraqis that you would contact the necessary personnel (police, hospitals, military) to obtain common medicines for your patients.

So far, all that you have convinced me of is that you run a bootleg operation to treat terrorists who are hiding from the authorities.

Please prove me wrong.

---Dan

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

"...you and all the warmongers consider me/us your enemy, your duty is to kill not to help,"

Right now I am royally pissed off. I may eventually leave a coherent comment but I am going to have to sleep on it.

Rachel in London said...

Dan and Lynnette: you are pathetic, and Truth Teller deserves better - eg respect - from you.

Truth Teller: is there a way one can help you with medicines? How would one get them to you in Mosul?

Dan said...

I stand by my earlier comment.

The burden of proof is now on Truth Teller.

---Dan

rafiki said...

TT interesting that your images of the camel spider bite are identical to a brown recluse spider bite as shown at www.andrew.cmu.edu/ user/chp/brown%20recluse/

google brown recluse and click images

if you need help i'm here for you...but right now i got to question the truth your telling

Moron99 said...

working link to photos of Brown recluse spider bites (circa 2003)

Link to exact same photos

Dan said...

Good ole' Snopes...

"I stand by my earlier comment.

The burden of proof is now on Truth Teller."

---Dan

strykerdad said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
strykerdad said...

Well, I tried. Gee, TT, maybe you misjudged me in the first paragraph, and you end it by calling me a warmonger and killer? Whiplash. The Marine killing the wounded man was tough to see, but did you hear of the Marines being killed by wounded enemy. Or the Marines killed when they moved the bodies of the dead, triggering a bomb? Nasty tactics call for harsh tactics. Did you expect him to walk over and offer the man a ciggarete? Do you know what he had seen and experienced in the days prior to that incident? Were you looking through his eyes when the man he thought was dead made some movement we could not see from the video? That marine did the right thing under the circumstances. But I will bet it will haunt him nonetheless, which is also tragic.

Posionous insects in Iraq--the Garden of Eden has poisonous insects! TT I never doubted that some American soldiers are bitten by poisonous insects, in fact I am very well aware that such things happen in that wonderful place you call home. By the way, the pictures given as proof are as others say, but an Army source on the ground said they could also show the progression of a serious case of leishamiasis (sp?), but I'm sure you have heard of that before. I have a medic soldier who forwarded what seemed to be identical photos to me months ago from a US Army site---oops! You stated that there was a rumour taken from an Arab site that giant spiders were attacking American soldiers and you took this photo as supporting evidence. I was already aware of the 'rumour' as it was a big joke among many who came across the same info and forwarded it to me. Now I already said I made assumptions that may have been out of line, that the rumor you spoke of may not have been the one that is widely available with the same accompanying picture as 'evidence' stating that giant spiders never before seen in Iraq had been sent by Allah to repel the American crusaders in fallujah. Now, if you did not intend to give some support for that ridiculous bit of propaganda and were just amazed that American soldiers were coming across poisonous insects in the Iraqi desert, then I have been unfair, and should have been ridiculing you for a totally different reason. What was your source, and are you really surprised that people of any nationality are sometimes bitten by spiders and scorpions? Any Iraqis have a similar experience? Just what was your point if not to propagate silly rumours? With that I'm done with the whole subject I thought I had dropped already, but you seem to want to continue with that instead of accepting a sincere effort to do what I can to give some relief to persons depending on you for medical assistance. I still want to help, and have come across several ways to do that while looking to help you, but on second thought, they seem much more likely to make better use of what meager help I can offer. Sorry you find my defense of my nation's soldiers to be irritating, but we seem to have the same effect on one another. If you continue to seek to tear them down in an open forum, I will continue to be an irritation. Yes, the coalition is there to kill and maim all Iraqis-including cancer victims in need of pain meds and colonoscopy supplies!-if you belived that you wouldn't be spouting off so freely. You obviously know better, so what is the true reason for your reluctance to seek assistance for your patients from the most capable source in your city? Keep up that attitude, it seems to be doing a lot for you, your family, and your patients. The future of Iraq will not be decided by you or those like you, thankfully.

waldschrat said...

Truth Teller -
I am still studying the problem of delivering medical supplies to Mosul.

There are several aspects to the problem:
1. Private citizens in the U.S. do not have easy access to prescription drugs. Hypothetically a private citizen here might order drugs shipped from abroad BUT quality would be highly suspect. This means the types of things ordinary citizens can send is very limited. Ostomy supplies can be sent, but for drugs and many other things the cooperation of a doctor or hospital or medical supply company will be required.

2. Shipping is a problem. This includes several aspects: the exact delivery point address, the shipping carrier which will transport the material, possible customs requirements and regulations, the matter of shipment prepartion (shipping to Mosul is much different from shipping to typical US addresses), and possible language problems (people in the US will have a hard time with Arabic, people in Mosul may have difficulty with English).

You identified the "Oncology and Nuclear Medicine Hospital" as the place to send ostomy supplies.

In the US I am accustomed to sending documents and packages to an address that includes
a. The name of a person or business, such as "Cancer Center - UCD Medical Center"
b. A building number and street name, such as "4501 X St"
c. The city, state, and postal code, such as "Sacramento, CA 95817".
d. A postal address code, such as "95819".

I found a reference in a UN document to "Hazim Al Hafid Oncology And Nuclear Medicine Hospital" in Mosul at grid coordinates 36.33333333 LAT, 43.13338333 LONG . Please tell me if a package addressed in english to
"Oncolology and Nuclear Medicine Hospital
Mosul, Iraq" will be understood in Mosul by an experienced delivery person (perhaps somebody like a taxi driver who speaks english). Would "Hazim Al Hafid Oncology And Nuclear Medicine Hospital" be a better name for the delivery point? Is a street name and building number needed? Is there a postal zone number or code that would commonly be used?

"Fedex" is the only US shipper I am aware of that can ship to civilian addresses in Mosul, but there may be others. Fedex's representative in the middle east is "Raven", if I recall. If your hospital or clinic receives international shipments of any sort, can you tell us what shipping carrier or carriers deliver them? Have you seen any packages marked "Fedex" or "Raven"?

I have heard of some medical shipments being delayed by customs (and also reported problems with materials which were out of date or poor quality). Do you know anything about such problems?

3. There is still the problem of knowing exactly what is needed, and of paying for it. Packages of 20 ostomy bags seem to cost about $100, and $300 would be required to send bags in small, medium and large sizes. I could probably afford that but I suspect it would be a long way from solving the long term problem. Certainly it would be impossible for me or most private citizens to buy everything a small hospital needs. All I can do personally is try to help in a small way. What is truly needed is to organize an ordering and delivery system that would allow you to order what you need from wherever in the world it is available, a system for delivering shipments from suppliers, a system to obtain money from some source(Iraq Health Ministry??? Mosul government??? US government?? Charities in Iraq or other nations??? Patients???), and a system to deliver payment for shipments received. I assume your hospital and clinic have tried to do this sort of thing. Perhaps you can tell us what the most difficult parts of the supply problems you face are.
a. Are you able to identify suppliers of what you need?
b. Are you able to communicate to those suppliers what they should send you?
c. Is there a reliable shipment method for delivering supplies you order?
d. Are you able to obtain sufficient money to pay for the supplies you need?
e. Is there a reliable method you can use to send payment for shipments received?

I know this is a lot of questions. If you can answer as many as possible it will help others to help you.

Dan said...

Truth Teller:

Will you puh-leez STOP deleting people's comments? I just logged on half expecting to see my comments deleted only to see the one after me, which I have never seen yet, deleted. Sir, what is it that you do not want people to see? Please put the comment back.

We cannot have an international group discussion if some of the speakers have tape over their mouths.

---Dan

strykerdad said...

I deleted my own irritating remarks as I had second thoughts on the subject at hand. TT has never deleted my remarks, as far as I know, which I think is admirable. I have never questioned anything he reported from his own direct experience, but it is his propensity to repeat misinformation that causes me to respond--like these purported pictures of camelback spider bites--we have these same spiders in the southwestern regions of the US, by the way. They aren't giant, and they aren't poisonous--nor do they target specific persons to scare the hell out of. Wanton destruction of hospitals and medical supplies by US forces? US forces planting IED's? Indiscriminate targeting of civilians? Same level of critical thinking and supporting evidence goes into these charges, but they are not as harmless as the legendary spiders.

Dan said...

I offer my apologies for misunderstanding the deletion, Truth Teller. Furthermore, I thank you for your tolerance of some unpleasant comments.

Strykerdad: Thanks for clarifying my error and setting me straight.

---Dan

strykerwife45 said...

TruthTeller,

You took an oath when you became a doctor to protect/save lives.

Your are being irresponsible by not excepting help because you don't trust "warmongering" Americans.

If you truly cared about the health and welfare of your patients you would take the help that is offered to you. You would go through whatever steps necessary to protect the lives of your patients whether that be through this blog or going through the US military even though you don't trust them. Its about lives and not personal opinions, correct?

Dan said...

There is something lurking in the back of my mind that I want to get out of the way:

What if Truth Teller is being held hostage in some manner and is being forced to provide medical treatment to terrorists?

Perhaps my imagination is running wild. Yet, how would he ask for help?

I have difficulty sorting out such strange blog postings. Truth Teller is obviously very frightened of something.

Truth teller said...

waldschrat

"I found a reference in a UN document to "Hazim Al Hafid Oncology And Nuclear Medicine Hospital" in Mosul at grid coordinates 36.33333333 LAT, 43.13338333 LONG . Please tell me if a package addressed in english to
"Oncolology and Nuclear Medicine Hospital, Mosul, Iraq" will be understood in Mosul by an experienced delivery person (perhaps somebody like a taxi driver who speaks english). Would "Hazim Al Hafid Oncology And Nuclear Medicine Hospital" be a better name for the delivery point? Is a street name and building number needed? Is there a postal zone number or code that would commonly be used?"


"Hazim Al Hafid Oncology And Nuclear Medicine Hospital" is the old name of the "Oncolology and Nuclear Medicine Hospital", The name has been changed after the occupation, for no reason..

The hospital located in a collection of buildings, all hospitals, called the Medical City. It is a well known place to every body here in Mosul as all the important hospital are there. There is no street name! and no building number!

The city is Mosul, no postal code, there are no states only Mosul, Iraq. and that is enough.

I didn't come in contact with any imported shipment, as all the Medicine and Medical appliances are imported and distributed by the MOH. Even the assistant shipment of any kind came through the MOH. All our needs and order should go through the same path via the MOH. It is an old and complicated routine.

" Are you able to identify suppliers of what you need? " Yes.

"Are you able to communicate to those suppliers what they should send you?" Yes

" Is there a reliable shipment method for delivering supplies you order? " No

"Are you able to obtain sufficient money to pay for the supplies you need?" No, The hospital needs are too much beyond our abilities.

"Is there a reliable method you can use to send payment for shipments received?" I don't know, but probably not.

Truth teller said...

dan

You have a comical imagination. Any way thank you for your thinking in me.
I am still in my house sitting infront of the computer and my daughter waiting me to allow them to use the internet as they made a schedule evry day for one of them, I have no turn, but I can use the computer any time I want.

Jack Bennett said...

Truth Teller, that infection picture you posted is pretty gruesome. I hope whoever that is in the photo is alright now.

I do have to disagree with you there. I've been reading your families' blogs since Najma started hers and while I may disagree with some things I have always respected you and your daughters as kind of educated Sunni Muslims Iraq is going to need if it will become a truly democratic and free country. When others have accused you of being a Baathist mouthpiece or of spreading misinformation I've cut you a lot of slack. But even you know better than to think all Amerrican or indeed all Americans in the military, even doctors like yourselves, are your enemy who wish you dead. I don't think even you really believe that. Your daughters have many American friends via the Internet who care about them (like myself) and the rest of your family and I'm sure you know all about that. You and your wife have even lived in the States for awhile so you know many American. Your oldest daughter, Aya's mother, was born in the US (according to your wife) which would by US law automatically make your daughter elgible to be a US citizen. Now you might say there is a difference between the "ordinary" American and the US military but I don't agree. Many US soldiers are not much older than your daughters, I hardly think they want to "kill" you and the US military is made up of many non-combatants who lend support (like doctors and engineers, professions I'm sure you're familiar with) who don't carry weapons even if they wear military uniforms. How are they trying to kill you. Come on, an educated man like yourself knows better than that. There are many people in the US who would like nothing better to help the people of Mosul and Iraq, some of them even work for the US government.

I am curious about your hospital though - who was Hazim Al Hafid that he gets a hospital named after him? Was he a Baathist? Because if he wasn't I don't understand why they would change the name of the hospital for no reason.

Dan said...

Truth Teller:

Thank you for clearing that up. I am glad that I was wrong in my thoughts. I have been told I am crazy before but, never comical.

Speaking of imaginations, yours is pretty vivid at times.

Please keep posting as all the world's eyes are on Iraq right now with much emphasis on Mosul. Whatever happens there, it is good to hear the opinions of A Citizen of Mosul.

Peace.

---Dan

PS.

The scar from my spider bite is about 1/4 inch wide and about 1/16 inch deep. The doctor almost shit on herself when I told her that I had tried washing it with bleach and then probing it with a knife before I went to the hospital.

I now understand that the brown recluse spider injects a blood agent into the subcutaneous dermal layer and the tissue above it rots away. It must heal from the bottom first.

The pictures that you posted show a very advanced stage of gangreen which obviously went improperly treated in and of itself.

I hope you get the meds you need.

---D.

Dan said...

I downloaded a map of Mosul and located several hospitals. It appears that yours may be the one north of the airport in an area called "Hayy Al Jawsaq." Is this correct?

Also, what is the English equivalent of "Hayy Al Jawqaq, please?" (I had two years of Spanish in high school and learned the Cyrillic alphabet and some Russian once but, the Arabic alphabet really threw me so I never learned Arabic.)

---Dan

Truth teller said...

jack bennett

'But even you know better than to think all Amerrican or indeed all Americans in the military, even doctors like yourselves, are your enemy who wish you dead. I don't think even you really believe that."

Hi "jack bennett"

I read the comments section in my daughter's blog, I Knew the real American viewpoints, I really respect you, and all the American in general. What I have said was about the war advogates who comment in this blog, They said it frankly more than once that they consider me as an enemy. My exact words were "In addition, you and all the warmongers consider me/us your enemy, your duty is to kill not to help."
I also lived in the US for a while and still have American friends, but I am sure that not all the people are the same in every part of the world. My be my English is not so good that I can't declare myself precisely.

"I am curious about your hospital though - who was Hazim Al Hafid that he gets a hospital named after him? Was he a Baathist? Because if he wasn't I don't understand why they would change the name of the hospital for no reason."

Hazim Alhafid was an Oncologist and Radiotherapist. He was the Director of the hospital from 1985 - 1995. He was not a Baathist and has no political activities. He developed Cancer of the Colon and died at 1995, he continue traeting patient till he died. Even when he was very ill and can't come to the hospital, the patients went to his house to be treated there, his son was a medical student at that time, wrote the medicine for him to the patients. When he died, We (the members of the cancer pain clinic and Ostomy unit), raised a suggestion to the MOH to name the Hosital in his name, the MOH agreed.
After the occupation, there were many places and hospitals named after Saddam or some of the dead Baathist, the new government take a decision to replace the names of the places which carry the name of a persons, so they change the name of this hospital.

schrodinger said...

TT, you could try contacting the International Red Cross. On their website they say that they have supplied some medical equipment to Iraqi hospitals. There is an e-mail address for their Iraq operation here. Their Iraq effort is still going despite being attacked by insurgents last year.

With the fighting in Mosul, I wonder if any mail or packages from the outside world would get delivered. Inbound mail is probably searched to ensure that it doesn't contain any military supplies for insurgents. If anyone tries to send something I think it would be a good idea to send a test package first to find out if the delivery system works and how long it takes. The hospital could reply by e-mail when they recieved the package.

The narcotic painkillers you mention are out of the question for ordinary US citizens. There is a serious problem of drug abuse involving painkillers here and those drugs are tightly controlled. I think you will have a lot of difficulty getting a supply of those. Even the cytotoxic drugs are not available without a doctor's prescription.

One of the reasons that Iraqis aren't getting the help you need is that most of the aid organisations have been chased out of Iraq by insurgent attacks.

Truth teller said...

dan

No, the Oncology and Nuclear Medicine Hoaspital is located in the other side of the city, in Hay Al shifaa.

The word "Hay" means "neighborhood, or district". "Al" means "the". "shifaa" means "cure". It is probably named so because it contains the main hospitals. I don't know the meaning of the word "Jawsag", I guess it has some thing to do with the river.

Arabic language is very difficult, there are many ways of pronouncing the same written word, each way give different meaning.

Rachel in London said...

Truth Teller, I wonder if Raed Jarrar could help you out. According to his blog (Raed in the Middle), he has until recently been transporting medical supplies to Baghdad from Jordan. I think these were bought with donations received via his blog.

Just a thought.

Dan said...

Truth Teller:

Thank you for explaining that to me.
My first attempt at location was using the coordinates given above.The map I have is a 1:40,000 PDF from the National Imaging and Mapping Agency dated April 2003. It is fairly detailed and zoomable.

There are three hospitals,the central one a complex, shown northeast of An Neil Jarrin(?) Street. The other two are listed as "Children's" and "Public." No neighborhood name is given. However, this is northeast of Az Zanjili, northwest of Hay An Nabijarjis and across the Tigris River from the south end of the Ninevah Woods. Is your hospital in this area?

NOTE: I apologize if I spelled some of these names wrong. I must zoom in to 400% to read them and the map becomes blurry at that magnification.

---Dan

Dan said...

Rachel in London:

Some of my anger comes from the vitriolic anti-American spew that Raed puts out on his blog. However, in the interest of helping, I will point out that Raed has a friend in the UK named Justin Alexander (whom I am not fond of) at www.justinalexander.net, who may live in London.

Also, I understand that Raed's mother is recently in the United States for a seminar.

---Dan

strykerdad said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Moron99 said...

Strykerdad, I think my english is lacking too. There needs to be a word somewhere between opponent and enemy. Something that means more than opponent ~ because opponent is usually used in games and sports. But something less than enemy ~ because enemy often means "kill or be killed".

Perhaps the French have a word that goes along with detente. Someone who pursues hostile interests. Someone against whom you will ardently defend yourself and your group. But also someone that you do not wish to harm. I think that word would cover a vast array of people in both America and Iraq. Maybe even such a word could lead to dialogue and reduce the violence on the street.

strykerdad said...

Such a phrase, "the French", would be a term that describes the very feeling you expressed. Ahhh, the French! Maybe adversary would be more proper?

Jack Bennett said...

Truth Teller, I apologize for missreading your words. I thought you meant that the US govt. wanted you dead and that's why you wouldn't go to them for aid. I really respect both you and your family as well even when I disagree because you do seem interested in what others think even if you think otherwise. I also must admit that I'm impressed by how intelligent your family is and how much stress is paid to education. Those are both wonderful things.

I just sincerely hope that once the terrorist insurgency (many of whom seem to be coming from outside of Iraq) is stopped in Mosul and the American presence is lessened that you feel safer and more trusting of our soldiers (most of whom have nothing but good will towards Iraqis).

As for Hazim Al Hafid, based on what you say he seems like a fine man who spent his days serving others. I'm not quite sure why the authorities would remove his name from the hospital.

Jack Bennett said...

I'd just like to add to my above comment that you seem to have meant that the authorities took the name of all persons off of all building even if they were not Baathists but I still don't understand the reasoning. Surely non-political men can like Dr. Al Hafid can still be honored even if Baathist names are removed?

rafiki said...

just to clarify...everyone is ok with the fact that TT posted fake photos while asking for medical assistance??? Perhaps the word everyone is struggling to find is antagonist. Personally, until TT can give a full a accounting for posting fraudulent pictures, I will deam him suspect.

Dan said...

Speaking of Raed Jarrar, who likes to hang out in Amman, Jordan, even though he is part of “A Family In Baghdad,” I challenge anyone to compare THESE two blog entries:

Raed for June 26, 2005 and U.S. 2nd Marine for June 30, 2005.

Which evidence is easier to fake?

Dan said...

Links are:

http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/

and

http://www.lejeune.usmc.mil/2dmardiv/050620-Newsletter.pdf

Dan said...

Oops...U.S. 2nd Marine for June 20, 2005. Please read both.

Dan said...

Rachel in London:

"And the wind cra'ed back..."

---Dan

Hurria said...

"Raed Jarrar, who likes to hang out in Amman, Jordan, even though he is part of “A Family In Baghdad,” "

Raed is not part of "A family in Baghdad". That is his mother's blog. Raed's blog is Raed in the Middle.

Dan said...

Hurria:

Did you read and compare the two links?

---Dan

Atunu said...

hey man..dont you get irritated by all these doritos eating boston people? i mean come on...why dont you speak up!! LEt me say something in your support:-

"monsures and madmojeils opposing the view of TT: heed this mkay....when you kill a malignant cancerous cell...you dont apply radiation to the whole body..other wise you would become a 5.5 feet tall radioactive isotope....same goes for iraq...if you needed saddam's love so much why didn't you just abducted and married him in your lustrous beach house in Tahiti? You have special ops,seal teams ,marine brigades this that blah..blah..blah...just sending them in a covert operation (like those shown in Hollywood movies) would have been enough....but noooo...you had to spare the life of innocent Iraqi and U.S people....you had to see their guts flying like proud cranes from fire from the opposite side...death has become so cheap...due to International politics...so thats all...thanks for screwing yet another beautiful and enriched country (i'm in no way supporting saddam's regime, have you seen him have sex with satan in southpark episode 410:Do the handicapped go to hel?)..but dude, you messed it all up...wahhhh"


To truth teller: Dont be disappointed ya all...always remember there are worse places on earth than your...for instance take our country, Bangladesh...here our oppressors are not some yankee-doodle from North-Carolina but we ourselves...so cheer up and may you see the light of dawn again if you are not killed by a stray bullet or the AHEM! accidental fire of an M1-A1 Abraham. ^_^

Truth teller said...

lynnette in minnesota
the strykerfamily(dad, aunt, wife .... etc.
dan

To get rid of the un trust condition between us. I made a positive movement toward the solution.

I choose a lovely person to do the job instead of me. He is the founder, the organizer and the head of the Ostmy unit, the Cancer Pain Clinic, and the CME program in the Directorate of health in Mosul. A well known, very efficientt, intellegent, educated and open minded person. He is a specialist in surgery and involved in most of the scientific activity of the health sector in Mosul. In addition he is a member of the Iraqi Cancer and of the Cancer Society in Mosul.

I call him yesterday and he agreed to take the responsibility and all the administrative procedure regarding the receive of the donated Ostomy appliances.

I suggest you either call him or e-mail him to organize the proposed work between you. he speak english very fluently and have experience as he is the one who arranged the Canadian donation of the Ostomy appliances in the past.

If you agree, I will give you his full adress, e-mail adress, and phone number. Just let me know.

waldschrat said...

I have been in contact with Truth Teller by email and, with his kind assistance, I have spoken to the doctor he mentioned as a contact in Mosul. This contact seemed like a very nice guy (I will not reveal his name here for security reasons).

I have arranged for an initial small shipment to go from OstomyCareSupply.com via Fedex to the hospital in Mosul, with a projected shipping date of July 5. I will report Fedex tracking information on the shipment here when it becomes available, and the contact at the hospital has said he will email me when it arrives.

What I am sending is a pitiful drop in the bucket compared to what is needed, although the cost is about what I spend on lunch and cigarettes in a month.

Anybody who wants to chip in may want to phone Cynthia Hacherl at OstomyCareSupply.com, (866)207-5909, cynthia@ostomycaresupply.com .

For those who have questioned the advisability of sending donations to Iraq, I suggest that sending medical supplies to a hospital is as close as any person can reasonably expect to get to placing assistance directly in a patient's hands. Strykerdad suggested that Mosul hospitals were a hangout for bad guys, but a recent news story of a suicide bomb attack on Iraqi cops sleeping at a hospital suggests they are actually a hangout for Iraqi police. The motivations of a medical professional are likely to lean much more toward saving lives than taking them, and medical supplies are real hard to use as munitions. Considering that the Iraqi Health Ministry is clearly a top-down socialized medicine bureaucracy operating in the chaos of what is charitably called a "regime change" I find reports of shortages of medical supplies totally, totally plausible. When there is a shortage of medical supplies, people suffer and die.

Dan said...

I, for one, am poor. I do not even have cable TV and am doing good to own a computer and be on the Internet. I can only send my best wishes in this matter.

Truth Teller, will you comment on the following news article?

"MOSUL, IRAQ (July 2, 2005) – Over 1,000 citizens and 500 Iraqi Police from numerous villages in southern Ninewah Province participated in a historic event today. This was the first March Against Terrorism and was conducted in the town of Qayyarah south of Mosul today. This was a strong demonstration which indicated citizens have had enough.

Many influential sheiks, mukhtars and imams took the lead to support and rally together citizens from all backgrounds, including Arabs and a large contingent of Kurds from east of the Tigris."

Hurria said...

1. It was not the first "March Against Terrorism". There have been other "Marches Against Terrorism". They were organized, sponsored, and conducted by elements closely affiliated with the occupation, such as Ahmad Chalabi's and Iyad `Allawi's parties.

2. What is the big deal about a March Against Terrorism? It is very safe to say that most Iraqis are not any happier about terrorism than they are about the occupation. Most Iraqis also recognize very clearly that they are being subjected to terrorism as a direct result of the American invasion and occupation of the country.

3. 1,000 is a pretty pathetically miniscule number compared to the other demonstrations that have taken place, so one cannot help wondering why this one is so noteworthy.

4. Did all the Kurds west of the Tigris boycott the demonstration for some reason?

5. I notice you did not post a URL or any other source for this article. Is there a reason for that?

Dan said...

Hurriah:

First of all, that was NOT addressed to YOU, it was addressed to Truth Teller.
Secondly, you did NOT answer the question that I DID pose to you.
Thirdly, your gloomy and pessimsitic opinions border on hatred of the good for being the good.

Your opinions are also incorrect. The terrorists are trying to submit Iraq to their will and are failing at everything except killing people. First they failed to start an ethnic civil war. Then they failed to stop an election which 8,000,000 Iraqis participated in. Now they are failing to start an insurrection against the Americans and the militaries of 26 OTHER nations. If the occupation ends prematurely, the terrorists, who are really just a bunch of religious psychopaths, will take Iraq back to the 8th century.

As you are very outspoken and so concerned for Iraq, why don't you run for public office and then propose legislation to have the occupiers leave immediately? Or is that not your style?

Dan said...

Oh yeah, Hurriah. Why don't you stand in front of 1,000 people and tell them that they are not "noteworthy?" You could use that as an opportunity to announce your candidacy for office and ask them for their votes.

---Dan

Hurria said...

Dan,

Still no source for the article, I see. I wonder why you don't want us to know where it came from.

Dan said...

Hurriah:

It came from Stryker Brigade's web site. Now, why don't YOU answer MY question which I asked you first?

My creditability proves itself for all to see. Why don't you validate YOUR statements?

---Dan

Dan said...

Hurriah:

...And before you go off on some tangent about Stryker Brigade, the reason I asked Truth Teller about the event was to hear HIS opinion about the rally. Since he is a doctor and lives in Mosul, I believe that he would be a good second source, if he so chooses to comment.

---Dan

Hurria said...

Ah! Styker Brigade's website - now there's an unbiased and knowledgeable source indeed! No wonder you were reluctant to reveal it.

Truth teller said...

dan

"MOSUL, IRAQ (July 2, 2005) – Over 1,000 citizens and 500 Iraqi Police from numerous villages in southern Ninewah Province participated in a historic event today. This was the first March Against Terrorism and was conducted in the town of Qayyarah south of Mosul today. This was a strong demonstration which indicated citizens have had enough.

Many influential sheiks, mukhtars and imams took the lead to support and rally together citizens from all backgrounds, including Arabs and a large contingent of Kurds from east of the Tigris."


Yes dan, that is wright, a demonstration in the city of Qayyarah against terrorism is planed and done in the supposed time, the march was planed to proceed to Mosul, but I don't know why it confined to Qyyarah. Almost all sort of people share in it. It is not a surprise as we all Arabs, kurds, Muslims, christians and other minorities, are ready to marsh against terrorism if this will do any good. We all agreed that terrorism is an act of devil and not to the benefit of this country. We want to get rid of terrorism.
The only thing we differ in, is that the definition of terrorist.

We consider the ones who invaded our country, killed our citizens, demolished our cities, frightened our children and destroyed our future are the reall terrorist. No matter who is he, or from where he came, or what an excuse he put to justify his act.

waldschrat said...

Strictly speaking, I think the definition of "terrorist" is someone who trys to frighten people into doing what they want. Truthteller, do you rally believe the American troops are trying to frighten Iraqis into doing anything in particular, except perhaps not killing Americans and other Iraqis?

Dan said...

Hurria:

Yes, Stryker Brigade's web site DOES tell the truth. The reason that I did not answer your question is NOT because I wanted to hide this from anyone. As a matter of fact, I guessed that you already read Stryker Brigade News.

The reason that I was reluctant to answer YOUR question is because you (STILL) will not answer mine.
So, are you going to answer ME?
---Dan

Dan said...

Truth Teller:

Twenty-seven nations liberated your country, not just the United States. These 27 nations have done MUCH to help re-establish Iraqi society. They have built schools, power plants, sewage systems, etc. etc. Saddam Insane now sits in a jail cell awaiting trial on crimes against humanity. You have a representational government elected by over 8,000,000 Iraqis. None of the 27 militaries who occupy your country engage in acts of terror yet you call them "terrorist" and blame all terrorist acts on the United States. An Iraqi army is in existence and is replacing the occupiers with its own soldiers as the Iraqi army grows.

Surely you are angry. Yet your anger puzzles me. You are a very well educated man: a doctor. Surley you can see that the people who target innocent civillians with bloodshed and hide their faces are the real enemy.

How DOES your mind work, sir?

---Dan

Dan said...

Truth Teller:

PS.

Thank you for commenting on the "rally." I prefer to get my news from at least two sources to cross-index its truth and you have helped me do so with your comment.

---Dan

Hurria said...

"Stryker Brigade's web site DOES tell the truth."

The "truth" as they see it from the narrow, biased, and myopic conqueror's point of view.

If they DO tell the truth, though, how is it that they made the demonstrably false claim that the march they reported was "a historic event" being "the first March Against Terrorism" when we know very well there have been others previously, and that those were much better attended (though not nearly as well attended as the numerous marches against the occupation, demandng workers' rights, etc.)?

Given that the previous Marches Against Terrorism were organized, sponsored, and mainly attended by U.S. agents such as Chalabi, `Allawi, and their supporters, one does have to wonder who organized this one. I don't suppose that is revealed on the Styker Brigade's website.

And I am still wondering why only Kurds from east of the Tigris attended this March Against Terrorism, and how it is that whoever reported this for the Sryker Brigade knew where all the Kurds came from. (On the other hand, I do have some idea now what Moron99's source is for all of this "West of the Tigris, East of the Tigris" nonsense is.)

And no, I do not read Stryker Brigade News.

Hurria said...

Dan, no one has liberated Iraq. All they have done is to change the identity of the oppressor.

strykerwife45 said...

hurria,

tell me, were you able to keep a blog or write in one for that matter, when Saddam was in power?

If your answer is no then I would say that you have been liberated because you now have the freedom to speak your mind and you will not be killed if someone doesn't agree with you.

Hurria said...

I did not keep a blog then, and I do not keep a blog now.

I love that your definition of liberation is limited to the freedomn to speak one's mind without being killed if someone doesn't agree with you. So, Iraqi women, who were once the most liberated women in the Middle East, are now liberated because they have the freedom to complain about the fact that they cannot leave the house for fear of being harrassed for wearing the wrong thing, or kidnapped, or raped, or murdered, or carjacked, or blown to bits by a bomb, or run off the road or blown away by their liberators because they or their driver could not get out of the way fast enough of an American humvee.

And Iraqi parents are liberated because for the first time in history they have the freedom to publicly complain that they are afraid to send their kids, especially their daughters, to school without having some adult male frome the family standing armed guard while the school is in session. And the male relatives have plenty of time to spend standing armed guard, because Iraqi professionals and Iraqi workers, male and female now have the freedom to publicly complain about 50-60% unemployment that threatens their ability to house, feed, and clothe their families.

And Iraqis are liberated because they have the freedom now to complain publicly about their complete lack of freedom of movement, the threat of having their entire neighborhood demolished by the liberators, the 3AM break-ins by heavily armed, semi-hysterical Americans who trash houses, steal money and valuables, terrorize families, physically and mentally abuse residents, and disappear them into detention centers and prisons where they can be held indefinitely without charge under abusive conditions, and quite likely tortured.

And Iraqis are liberated because they have the freedom to openly long for something they thought they would never want to see again - the rule of Saddam Hussein.

Truth teller said...

mitra

"This wounded person was shooting at the Marines. He had been captured a day ago and released, and then he started shooting again at the Marines. The way I understand it, the guy pretended to be dead and then started moving in front of the Marine, and that prompted the shot."

Your description of the event is so foolish indicating you are just trying to get an excuse to every inhuman things done by your barbarian country men. The story is well known and decumented, only a ignorant and stupid idiot like you will think as you did.

To all other commentators.
Sorry for bothering you with these offensive words. I apologise to you for this angry responce to mitra.
It is the first time I write such offensive word to a commentators, do you know why?
It is because of this stupid sentences he wrote.

"Its that stupid religion of yours that turns you into an imbecile."

This statement reflect the hatred of him and of his ilk toword Islam. And I am sure it is not a tongue slip, other wise hs have the time to correct it.

I am sure no one of you agree with him. But I still want your opinions about his statement. It is very important to me.
I was in the process of reconsider my attitude toword others, especially the american. But this made me feel that I was right in my feeling.

Hurria said...

"the guy pretended to be dead and then started moving in front of the Marine, and that prompted the shot."

Even if everything you say is correct, and there is no reason to believe it is since it flies in the face of every other account of the incident, there is nothing there to justify what amounted to cold blooded murder. Pretending to be dead and moving is not a capital offense, particularly since the man was a captive, he was tied up, and he was wounded. Any one of those three would make killing him a war crime no matter how you try to spin it. All three together make it triply a war crime.

Hurria said...

"the 10,000 Shiite children, women, and men blown up by Baathist car bombs"

Wow, you are just a wealth of interesting statistics. What is your source for this one, please?

strykerwife45 said...

TT-

As much as I may not agree with you or Hurria on a lot of matters I do not believe it is right to criticize your religion.

strykerdad said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Truth teller said...

strykerwife45

"I do not believe it is right to criticize your religion."

I was expecting the same from all of you, thank you.

Ann said...

TT,

You've asked for opinions regarding a comment about religion. My opinion is this: people should be free to choose the way that they worship and they way that they don't worship and to form their own opinions about the spiritual world. Religious beliefs are powerful and can be used appropriately or abused just like prescription drugs can.

Religion for an individual can be a great thing. It provides a forum for imagination, a guiding morality, escape, hope for humanity and the future, and many other fantistic components of the human experience. There are devout Islamics who have forever changed the world in positive ways. They obviously are not imbeciles for their having religious beliefs.

Religion isn't science. Science seeks truth based on falsafiable hypothesis. Religion seeks truths in terms of spiritual beliefs: and discusses thinkg that can be proven true or proven false.

Organized religion can be good as it gives followers a moral compass in confusing world and people form a community by being a part of that religion - and communities are important for cooperative living. Organized religion can also be bad because followers can be brainwashed to do harm to themselves and others.

It is up to the people that are members of a religion to define its practices and beliefs and requirements of followers. All religions, like all systems, evolve in time. I think Islam would benefit from some reform, in fact, I think all religions should always be looking at ways to change so as to best server their members.

I think religion and state should be separate. Having a state religion in a country is not always a good idea because if that religion changes so that certain beliefs and practices are mandated, then the citizens lose control of their lives. Having a state religion of Islam doesn't define what Islam is, rather it lets people who are high ranking in the organization say what Islam is to suit their needs. The result of having a state religion is that citizens will have the religion of the day, not knowing if they are Sufis or Wahabbis or what people call 'moderate' Islamics. In some countries that have Islam as a state religion they even have outlawed music. Taking music away from people is like taking away their soul, but when you have a state religion that is what can happen.

People committing crimes because someone told them their religion said it was OK or mandated to do so, are still criminals. Every citizen should be taught about their responsibilities to their government - and the rights that they have by their goverment - so that they can be protected from those who use religious organizations as a forum for exploiting members. I think it is healthier for people to base their decisions and actions on their own personal morality, rather than on beliefs about punishments and rewards from God or in the afterlife. Quality education for children is more important for attaining that goal than taking potshots at religious ideologies.

-Ann

PS
I believe that you are wrong about the camel spiders and that the pictures you posted rightfully belong to someone else (copyright and such). I don't know where you got them but those are brown recluse spider bites. Because the photos exist someplace else on the web and with their website conveniently cut-off, it makes your blog look a bit like a hoax. From what I've read, Camel spiders don't have venom but all insect bites can pose a threat to a person because the bite can open blood to world where bacteria and fungus can get into that person more readily. Some people have allergic reactions to insect bites that others do not have.

Also, I think you're wrong about US assistance to Iraq during Saddam's regime. After Iraq was taken off the designated country list, they were able to buy things from the US as other countries were able to (and did). It wasn't assistance to Iraq, but rather, people buying from and selling to Iraq, and most of the rest of the world as well. Was there charity that was used inappropriately? I don't know.

Suppose two people are in line for charity, and both are given money equally. One takes the money, feeds the family, and with extra money is able to find a job where charity would no longer be neede by the family. The other takes the money, buys a weapon and then goes out shooting people or robbing people. Is the charity organization at fault for the misuse of funding by the recipient?

I know that we have different moralities. You have said that it is ok for a religion (and Saddam) to be supportive of suicide/homocide bombers. I disagree, especially when it is done in a context where people openly acknowledge injustice and are working towards improving the situation. It is action that is counterproductive toward their goal, and has given Islam a bad reputation resulting in headlines that make Islam sound more like the Mafia than an organized religion. I understand why you take offense at some of the "sunni" or "baathist" labels applied to you because you may not regard yourself as a sunni or a baathis. But what label does one put on someone who openly says they condone suicide/homocide bombing and funding toward the families of suicide/homocide bombers? Would you take offense if you were called that label?

Ann said...

errata:

Religion discusses things that can't be proven true or false. Science is based on observation of the physical world and doesn't evoke spiritual world explanations of physical world events.

strykerdad said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Hurria said...

"I understand why you take offense at some of the "sunni" or "baathist" labels applied to you because you may not regard yourself as a sunni or a baathis."

No, you clearly do NOT understand why we take offense at being labeled Sunnis or Baathists. You particularly do not understand why we take offense at being labeled Sunnis. We do not take offense at being labeled Sunnis because we "may not think of ourselves as Sunnis". That applies to those of us who are not Sunnis as well as those of us who are (and for your information, the great majority of Kurds are Sunnis). Here are some of the reasons we do take offense:

1. Labeling us as Sunnis or Baathists (or anything else for that matter) is nothing more than a way of avoiding dealing honestly with anything we have to say. Once you have labeled us in this way you give yourselves permission to dismiss whatever statements, facts, or points of view we present as inherently false or wrong or even bad by categorizing us and stereotyping us as the ones who are on the wrong side.

2. In particular when you use the "Sunni" label as you do as a pejorative stereotype, you imply very clearly that in your mind all Sunnis are alike, and there something wrong with being a Sunni. This is an insult on many levels, and displays considerable ignorance on your part.

3. When you apply the "Sunni" label in order to categorize and negatively stereotype someone's point of view you are assuming divisions and differences between Iraqis that do not exist. This also displays considerable ignorance on your part of Sunni and Shi`i Islam, and of Iraqis and Iraqi society.

Ann said...

Thank you for the education. I will never label another living soul on this planet as being a sunni or a baathist. I didn't previous to this enlightenment, but obviously for the wrong reasons. Now that I really understand why you take offense at these meaningless labels, I will continue to not use them but at least for the right reasons.

What do we call someone who condones the actions of suicide/homicide bombers?

I want to call such a person "asshole" but I realize that it might be offensive and it isn't the decorum or type of language that I use, so I don't.

So what label do you put on a person who encourages their child strap on a bomb and blow themselves up in the market square?

strykerdad said...

Ann---wow! Thanks for the smile that gave me.

Hurria said...

Ann, it is really too bad that you were unable to respond in an adult, reasoned way to my comments instead of taking it so personally and indulging in a hysterical outburst. I am glad to know that you have not used the labels we were discussing, and I hope it is clearer to you now why no one should.

"So what label do you put on a person who encourages their child strap on a bomb and blow themselves up in the market square?"

Why do you feel a need to put any kind of label on anyone, and what has this to do with what we have been talking about?

And by the way, I have never heard of anyone encouraging his own child to do as you described. Have you?

Ann said...

Well, as long as we are discussing cultural differences, that which you call "hysterical outburst" is considered dry new england humor - read in a different tone.

Yes, I have. In fact, it has been said that Al Sadr's own father had once requested that he martyr himself. Giving money to suicide martyr families, and giving them some sort of status encourages youth. There are kids who find it difficult to please their parents and seek these gradious ways to receive acceptance and approval even when they know they will no longer be living. To the kid who was never able to bring home the straight A report card, or the award for some athletic event, or some outstanding achievement certificate, they feel a sense of having let down their parents. The thought of being able to have Mom or Dad proudly holding one of Saddam's certificates of martyrdom heroism was a reward or incentive that encouraged them to commit the act. So is the thought of bringing positive attention, higher status, and money to their family. If the local community shunned the behavior and treated it as wrongful, shameful, humiliating to the community, then these kids would not be doing it.

Snake in Fall said...

Now, I know what really happened in Iraque.

Hurria said...

" that which you call "hysterical outburst" is considered dry new england humor - read in a different tone."

I am well acquainted with dry humour, and have been known to use it myself. In this case a more correct term would be sarcasm, used here, I believe, to dismiss what I had to say rather than to deal with it.

In any case, you did not respond in a reasoned, adult manner, and you turned it into something personal.

Hurria said...

I asked if you have ever heard of any parent "encouraging their child strap on a bomb and blow themselves up in the market square?" You replied:

"Yes, I have. In fact, it has been said that Al Sadr's own father had once requested that he martyr himself."

Assuming you mean Muqtada' Al Sadr:

1. It has been said by whom? Why should we believe it is true? Do you believe everything just because "it has been said", or only the things you want to believe?

2. Perhaps there is some confusion about what it means to martyr oneself. It is not synonymous with strapping on a bomb and blowing oneself up in a market square or anywhere else for that matter.

3. Even if Muhammad Sadiq Al Sadr - who is himself a real martyr having been killed by Saddam Hussein for his refusal to sacrifice bow down to the regime - did ask his son to martyr himself (and at this point I have no reason to believe he did), it is impossible to interpret what he meant without knowing exactly what he said and the context in which he said it.

It is somewhat plausible that he may have asked his son to be prepared to be a martyr if absolutely necessary by standing firm and not giving in to tyranny. Since I do know something about Mohammad Sadiq Al Sadr, I can state with complete confidence that he would never have suggested that his son or anyone else should deliberately kill himself.

4. It is implausible to the point of absurdity that he would have encouraged him to do something as rash and useless - and unislamic - as to strap on a bomb and blow himself up in a market square or anywhere else. Suicide bombing is a totally foreign concept for Iraqis, was unheard of in Iraq or on the part of Iraqis before March, 2003. Even today it appears that few if any of the suicide bombers in Iraq are Iraqis.

Mohammad Sadiq Al Sadr was one of the greatest, most respected, and most learned Shi`i Islamic scholars and leaders, and he would never have found committing suicide bombing in the market square or anywhere else a way to get to paradise. Suicide is forbidden in Islam, as is intentionally harming innocents. No one who does either one, let alone both, will see paradise, and the likes of Mohammad Sadiq Al Sadr would never have found a way around that, nor would he have sought one.

"Giving money to suicide martyr families, and giving them some sort of status encourages youth."

On what basis do you make this assertion, other than the fact that you have heard it somewhere and it fits with what you want to believe? Do you have any actual evidence of youth being encouraged by this?

(Saddam Hussein gave money and certificates to the families of all Palestinians martyred in the Intifada, not just to the families of suicide bombers.)

"There are kids who find it difficult to please their parents and seek these gradious ways to receive acceptance and approval even when they know they will no longer be living." etc., etc., etc.

1. What does gradious mean? I cannot find it in any dictionary.

2. You are assuming, without any evidence at all, that there are parents who have given their kids reason to believe that committing a suicide bombing will please them when nothing else will. You cannot come up with a single plausible example of a parent even encouraging his or her child to become a suicide bomber, yet you feel comfortable making this claim.

3. Not only can you present not a shred of evidence to support the theory you are putting forth, it flies in the face of reality. There is no evidence that the stipends paid or the certificates given to the families of suicide bombers resulted in a single child or adult deciding to strap on a bomb himself. And your theory that children will become suicide bombers because they cannot bring home straight A's or win sports awards so this is the only way to please mommy and daddy flies in the face of reality, and everything psychologists and sociologists know about family dynamics. It also shows a real lack of knowledge and some rather racist assumptions about the relationship of Arab/Muslim parents and their children - as if somehow Arab/Muslim parents do not love their children and do not have the same overriding urge to protect them that other humans do.

And by the way, Ann, exactly how old ARE these children you are saying are being encouraged by their parents, and who you claim are so eagerly strapping on bombs to please their parents and bring fame and glory to their families?

Ann said...

First, accept the fact that these martyrs are not acting alone and didn't select themselves as martyrs to carry out the act. As the aricle here says:

But the sacrificial dimension was most transparent in a simple truth about the operations: the "self-martyrs" were not self-selected, but had to meet criteria that were socially and culturally defined.

There are suicide rampages that children go on to get back at people who pick on them, but these suicide/homicide political bombers are kids who were recruited, trained, financed and enabled by outsiders.

Second, accept the fact that whether or not you like or appreciate it, there are Islamic leaders who use Koran passages to justify these actions.

Finally, since it is a society based decision (external more than internal), please realize that parents have a significant influence over what teens and young teens accept. If the parents celebrate the suicide martyrdom of other children, they are passively encouraging their own children. Perhaps their children are picking up on real signals (or imposing signals not countere by the parents) that the parents would like it to have the recognition, honor, and all that the parents of others get when their children commit these acts. This is an extreme influence and though not necessarily verbalized, it is encouraging their children. Even showing up to the events of celebration or memorial, or specifically seeing it on the news, talking about it, or hearing it on the radio - letting the children become exposed to that culture - in the absense of telling them it is wrong - is encouraging. It is just like drug use - if children grow up in an environment where drug use is accepted, their parents have to agree that they encouraged that behavior. The only way to stop it is to get the local communities to say it is wrong and in opposition to the fundamental teachings of their religion and ethics and values of the family and society.

Another article says this:

But Sarraj sees the child's quest for approval in a culture that values martyrdom as the overriding motivation, and a phenomenon with potentially disastrous consequences for Palestinian society in the long run.

Parents may externally say they don't want their kids to become suicide bombers. But if they passively seem to like seeing the outcomes, don't refute claims of entrance to paradise, and worse if they don't even say to their kids that they don't want them to become suicide bombers - well then, by accepting the norms of the society as their own family values, then yes, they are encouraging their children to become suicide martyrs.

I wonder if Truth Teller realizes that some of his posts on this blog are suggestive of and encouragement of his own daughters committing these acts?

Hurria, do you think this behavior is acceptable? Do you think it is consistent with the fundamental values and teachings of Islam?

Ann said...

I apologize for not including this quote from the second article linked above:

Um Nidal Farahat, a Gazan mother of four, has a very different attitude. She says she encouraged her sons, from a young age, to
attack Israeli targets and become martyrs. One son, Mohammed, 17, was killed in March when he attacked Atzmona, a Jewish settlement in the southern Gaza Strip, and killed five youths there. Mohammed had been active with Hamas' military wing since he was 7, Um Nidal told the Saudi newspaper Asharq al Awsat last month.

"In this atmosphere, Mohammed came to love martyrdom," she said. "As a mother, I re-enforced this love for martyrdom in the mind of Mohammed and of all my sons."


Kind of says it all, doesn't it? And Saddam's money paid parents like this to have children they encouraged to do this. Saddam's money came from the oil-for food program. Saddam's financing came from Kofi Annan. Indirectly Kofi Annan was giving money to Palestinian women to make babies and educate them as children to become martyrs and to blow themselves up in Israel. The United Nations at work. Frankly, what the heck are they doing in our country? Why is the UN involved in such nonsense? They are supposed to be protecting lives, espeically children, and safeguarding women's rights so this woman doesn't go out and give up who she really is to have her womb become a human bomb factory. It is sickening and very sad.

At least, it is sickening in my opinion.

Hurria said...

"First, accept the fact that these martyrs are not acting alone and didn't select themselves as martyrs to carry out the act."

Do you really think it comes as news to me that suicide bombers do not act alone?

" accept the fact that whether or not you like or appreciate it, there are Islamic leaders who use Koran passages to justify these actions."

Do you imagine for one moment that I am so ignorant and naive that I do not know this?

"please realize that parents have a significant influence over what teens and young teens accept."

Just exactly whom do you think you are speaking to here, a slightly dim witted six year old who has been kept in a closet her whole life?a

I will try to address the rest of what you wrote a bit later, but in brief, it is little more than more of the usual opinion and speculation with no facts or reality to back it up. Your two sources are well known for their anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Palestinian bias, and are not convincing either.

Ann said...

Hurria, nothing I said was intended to insult your intelligence. I apologize if it came across that way to you.

Truth teller said...

ann

"I wonder if Truth Teller realizes that some of his posts on this blog are suggestive of and encouragement of his own daughters committing these acts?"

I am sure you understand me wrong, I never encourage suicide in any way.
The thing which I think you misunderstand me, is the fact that I considered fighting the occupation is a necessity for every citizen, not only for Iraqi but for every one all over this earth.
To bomb your self or suicide in a car bomb, It is against our believe as Muslims.

Ann said...

Truth,
That's odd, we were talking about this in context of Saddam's assistance to suicide/homicide bombers in Palestine. Is that the occupier you are talking about?

I'll post some more thoughts about this later tonight, but want to mull it over in my head some more. So, a follow up coming...

Truth teller said...

I found this article while I surfing the internet (In an Amerivan site).
what I understand from this, is that those spider were spread by U.S. servicemen who served in the Persian Gulf War in 1991, and re-spread at the beginning of the Iraq War in 2003:

"Camel spiders are the subject of a variety of legendary claims, many of them familiar to Americans because they were spread by U.S. servicemen who served in the Persian Gulf War in 1991, and re-spread at the beginning of the Iraq War in 2003:"

The site from where I read this is:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/bugs/camelspider.asp

Other site about the same subject is:
http://www.faunaimportuk.com/caresheets/cswindspider.htm

Ann said...

The rumors about camel spiders were spread, however the camel spiders (which aren't really spiders) were native to the desert.

Here is another information source:
http://camelspiders.net/

I had seen these before regarding the rumor, but a bit from a creature like this *could* cause allergic reactions, or who knows what was on the creatures mouth when it bit someone - so I didn't want to say this or that against your own experience treating a person for a bite. I'm glad you found the picture has been going around for a while.

The other pictures are attributed elsewhere to brown recluse spider bites - rafiki posted one site at The origin, perhaps, of the brown recluse spider bite photos shown in the blog. These photos are the same but have a little more at the bottom that has www.stileproject.com - don't go there it is a bad site to view - is written across the image. That portion of the images is missing from the photos posted at this site.

I would never suggest that a camel spider bite *couldn't* result in a similar reaction, but it would be the first time someone reported that in a medical journal, wouldn't it?

Ann said...

PS, unless by birth defect or having lost a limb:

insects have 6 legs
spiders have 8 legs
anarchids have 4 pairs of legs - 8 legs but in a special symmetry

Spider Myth Site - about Arachnids vs. Anarchids

And this site might be worth sharing with elementary school teachers:

Enchanted Learning

There are a lot of free worksheets that can be printed out for students to color. The link goes to a page about arthropods, but at the index at the top there are a lot of other places to navigate to and find pages. Some are in French, Spanish, and other languages.

Also your daughter mentioned a while back at not being able to have a good French teacher. About has a site at French Language that is great to work with in schools, or independently. You can sign up for free newsletters, and there is basically an on-line course, but a student has to be motivated to want to progress. If you have speakers on the computer, you can listen I think.

Wadood al Sistani said...

as salam 'alaykum

I saw the portrait of your respected grandpa (Allah have mercy on him, give him paradise)

and it reminded me of a Kurdish Sunni Shaykh of the Shafi'i Madhab who I recently met in 'Amman having had fled Mosul.

He has similar beautiful features.

For Allah 'azza wa jal has made man the best of all creation.

jazak Allah khayr for sharing a portrait of him.

fi aman Allah

Wadood al Sistani

Truth teller said...

Wadood al Sistani

Al salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatoho.

Thank you very much for stoping by my blog, and leaving a comment.
I appreciate that and hope you will do it again.

fi aman allah.

valueprep.com said...

Those photos are the most telling I can remember in some time with regard to what a spider or any animal can do for that matter. However, I had a friend in fla. who traveled to central america and never returned becuase of merely walking through the bush and he was bit by a fer de lance snake. Good thing it wasn't that!
great stuff and killer blog,
Take care,
Brian
no fax guy

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