Citizens for Fair Legislation
For Immediate Release
July 25, 2005
********************************
CFL ALERT: BUSH ADMINISTRATION TO LOBBY AGAINST LEGISLATION THAT WOULD BAR TORTURE AND INHUMANE TREATMENT OF PRISONERS.
This weekend the Pentagon blocked images from Abu Ghraib, in violation of a federal court order, that have been described by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld as "blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane." Republican Senators who have seen the images said they contained scenes of "rape and murder." The Pentagon refuses to release these images on the basis that it is bad PR for the United States. This
comes at the heels of intensive lobbying efforts by the Bush administration to block legislation that would bar the U.S. military from engaging in "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" of detainees, from hiding prisoners from the Red Cross, and from using interrogation methods not authorized by a new Army field manual. Take a moment to send our prewritten letter to the President and to your Representatives telling them that you are appalled that the American public is being kept in the dark about the abuse of Iraqi detainees and that you are outraged that the President is refusing to take measures to ensure these abuses don't occur again.
TALKING POINTS:
* A military report on the abuse at Abu Ghraib states that the images the Pentagon is blocking show detainees being threatened, sodomized with chemical lights and forced into sexually humiliating poses. After viewing these images, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters, "'The American public needs to understand
we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience." A report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba on the abuse says videotapes and photos also show naked detainees forced to masturbate while being photographed and videotaped, of guards having sex with female detainees, young boys
being sodomized and Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts for American soldiers. New York Times reporter, Seymour Hersh, who helped uncover the scandal, said in a speech before an ACLU convention:
"...There are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications to their men....The women were passing messages saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened.
...Boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out."
*Last week Vice President Cheney met with Republican Senators that publicly expressed frustration about the administration's failure to hold senior military officials responsible for the abuse and torture at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. At that meeting Cheney stated his opposition to congressional intervention regarding the treatment of
detainees at either Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo. Later the White House issued a statement stating that President Bush would veto a $442 billion defense bill if representatives continued to attempt to impose restrictions on what the military can and cannot do to detainees.
That statement appeared to be directed at Republican Sen. John McCain who began circulating a letter to look into legislation that would outline the treatment of detainees held by the U.S. military. Sen. McCain's provisions would require that all foreign nationals in U.S. custody be registered with the Red Cross and would also prohibit "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" of anyone in U.S. custody.
*Please take a moment to write to your representatives to express outrage at the treatment of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib and tell them that you resent that the Pentagon is keeping the American public in the dark about what is happening in Iraq. Tell the President that you expect him to stop taking measures in support of the crimes that happened at Abu Ghraib. By blocking legislation meant to prevent
torture, rape and cruel and unusual punishment the White House is clearly indicating approval for the barbaric treatment of men, women and children held in U.S. run detention centers.
EMAIL AND OR CALL THE WHITE HOUSE
WHITE HOUSE COMMENTS LINE: 202-456-1111
WHITE HOUSE SWITCHBOARD: 202-456-1414
WHITE HOUSE FAX: 202-456-2461
===============================
Citizens for Fair Legislation is a grassroots organization committed to encouraging a fair domestic and foreign policy with an emphasis on the US/Arab world.
http://www.cflweb.org
Please take it seriously and do what your moralistic principle ask you to do.
27 comments:
We'll continue medical discussions on the thread below for now. You guys can debate up here.
Moron99 –
[m99] “Reparations are and will continue to take the form of rebuilding contracts in areas that are out of insurgent reach.”
Hmm. Yes, building contracts that were imposed upon the Iraqis by the US; building contracts which have soaked up billions of Iraqi dollars, together with other US ‘expenses’; building contracts that do not even go a fraction of the way towards restoring Iraqi infrastructure to the standards that it was before the sanctions and bombing that YOUR country so vicariously supported.
Here’s a measure of the progress of your wonderful rebuilding contracts:
Despite $2 Billion Spent, Residents say Baghdad is Crumbling
by Leila Fadel - July 26, 2005 - Knight Ridder
BAGHDAD - Talib Abu Younes put his lips to a glass of tap water recently and watched worms swimming in the bottom.
Electricity flickers on and off for two hours in Muthana Naim's south Baghdad home then shuts off for four in boiling July heat that shoots above 120 degrees. Fadhel Hussein boils buckets of sewage-contaminated water from the Tigris River to wash the family's clothes. The capital is crumbling around angry Baghdadis. Narrow concrete sewage pipes decay underground and water pipes leak out more than half the drinking water before it ever reaches a home, according to the U.S. military.
[...]
After nearly two years and hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of repairs to rebuild Iraq's crumbling power grid, electricity production remains below pre-war levels, according to State Department figures. (REUTERS/Namir Noor-Eldeen)
(Sidenote: Am I the only one who remembered the trumpeting by the US that the electricity production in Iraq had surpassed pre war levels? Methinks I smell the decaying carcass of yet another lie … )
But, of course, we all know that rebuilding is a HUGE PRIORITY for the Americans. Why the country is simply overrun with construction workers setting aright the war damage. I mean, look at this article excerpt from last year:
Harper's Magazine, September 2004 – Naomi Klein
“I had traveled to Iraq a year after the war began, at the height of what should have been a construction boom, but after weeks of searching I had not seen a single piece of heavy machinery apart from tanks and humvees. Then I saw it: a construction crane. It was big and yellow and impressive, and when I caught a glimpse of it around a corner in a busy shopping district I thought that I was finally about to witness some of the reconstruction I had heard so much about. But as I got closer I noticed that the crane was not actually rebuilding anything - not one of the bombed-out government buildings that still lay in rubble all over the city, nor one of the many power lines that remained in twisted heaps even as the heat of summer was starting to bear down. No, the crane was hoisting a giant billboard to the top of a three-story building. SUNBULA: HONEY 100% NATURAL, made in Saudi Arabia.” //end excerpt
Well now, that’s a little harsh perhaps. Perhaps THIS YEAR Baghdad is overflowing with reconstruction efforts:
Patrick Cockburn
Iraq: This is now an unwinnable conflict – 24 07 05 – The Independent
“The government, whose members seldom emerge from the Green Zone, make bizarre efforts to pretend that there are signs of a return to normality. Last week a pro-government newspaper had an article on the reconstruction of Baghdad. Above the article was a picture of a crane at a building site. But there are no cranes at work in Baghdad so the paper had been compelled to use a photograph of a crane which has been rusting for more than two years, abandoned at the site of a giant mosque that Saddam Hussein was constructing when he was overthrown.” //end excerpt
Uh, yeah, maybe NEXT year, when those stingy Iraqis have given even MORE oil revenues to the compassionate and hardworking Bechtel and Halliburton, maybe next year, we might see some progress.
Really, Moron99, do you want to go into the details of WHY the reconstruction efforts are a complete and utter flop? Do you want to go into the details of HOW Iraq’s money was spent (such as can still be ascertained) ? We can go there if you like, and we can drag out all the gory details that explain why Iraqis are drinking water with worms in it.
[M99] “If not, then we'll just have to keep arguing, while the baathi continue stalling tactics, destabilization, sabatauge [sic] , intimidation, and deflecting attention from their real goals. Which is fine for the governemnt [sic]. It gives them time to develop the officers they need.”
The officers they need to do what, exactly? Kill Sunnis? Kill Kurds? Kill Shia? Export the Revolution to Saudi Arabia? You realise that the US jaunt into Iraq is tearing the country apart into ethnic factions, don’t you?
So … I can only assume, then, that the US (and you, by your comments) is happy to assist the Iranian efforts at consolidating its control over Iraq. I can only assume that you are impressed with the trampling of women’s rights, secular freedoms and the burning / assassination of music stores, barbers, alcohol vendors, CD outlets and so forth. I bet that you are really proud that the US military has managed to extend the Islamic Revolution into Iraq. I bet that Ayatollah Khomenei is guffawing in his grave …
I can hear that you are protesting that these consequences were not what the US had planned for Iraq. Yet, these consequences were entirely predictable (and predicted), and, what’s worse, the US presence is exacerbating ethnic tensions and the violence. Your country is exploiting the divisions created within Iraqi society in order to prolong its occupation.
You are responsible for the mess.
Dan --
[dan] “Please see my comment on the family blog. I read it first as I thought this blog was going to focus on medical supplies. I guess not.”
Dan, the previous POST was the medical post. This is something else. Do try to keep up.
Truth Teller --
I think that in fact this is not a fresh round of horrors from Abu Ghraib, but people who are asking that more of the thousands of pictures from Abu Ghraib be released for public interest. Naturally what we have seen is only the tip of the iceberg, and doubtless the full extent of the scandal will start to seep through if too many pictures and videos are released. The fact that some of the abuse photos were used OPENLY as computer SCREENSAVERS in some sectors of the US military tells me that many more people than the half dozen or so that were punished were in fact involved. I have read the Taguba Report and there are clear references to rape in it. I suggest that you take a look at it yourself, some time. (I have a copy if you like.)
"Change the entire meaning?"
In what way, pray?
Please, elucidate for us my alleged distortions, and then we shall see. Otherwise its just hot air
Incidentally guys, for those of you who can't afford to donate, I'm trying to track down a service that can ship referigerated goods from the airports in either Basra, Baghdad, or Ankara (in Turkey).
Your research would be helpful. Please post your results in the" Horror Story" post below. Also, TT, if you can think of any good refrigerated shipping companies that might be able to ship reliably to your hospital, let me know.
Oh, I would prefer this not be military or US or NGO shipping companies. I'm pretty certain I can find a military organization that will provide this service to me, but this doesn't represent a long term shipping solution for the hospital. It would be preferable if we could set up something that the hospital could use as a permanent solution to their procurement problems. Of course, in the short term, we will use anything. But a long term solution would be better.
That way, all they have to do is get the MOH to pay the company directly, and everyone involved knows how to properly fill the order and ship it.
I hit the media about Khalid, and I will hit the media about this also!
Your stories will get out. KEEP THEM ROLLING.
Thanks and Hats Off to the level headed commentors such as Maddog & Dan!
This is the last thing certain inhuman people need to hear about AGAIN!
Moron99 --
Your rant is long on speculation and short on facts; I’ll give examples shortly.
The point IS: ‘reconstruction’, such as it is, has been pathetic and inadequate. Projects that the US HAS managed to complete have fallen to pieces almost as soon as they were commissioned. A prominent sewage treatment plant comes to mind. This shoddy workmanship is hardly the result of insurgent action. Furthermore, the reality is that the monies paying for this crap work comes from IRAQI funds, appropriated by the US through its cronies. These contracts were unilaterally IMPOSED by the US on Iraq, at prices established by the *contractors* without any input from the Iraqi people. Where I come from that is armed robbery. This of course does not even address the fact that enormous amounts of Iraqi cash has simply vanished into thin air under your country’s stewardship, amounts that make the UN oil scandal seem like boys stealing sweets from the corner café.
Now, given this gross mismanagement of the *cough* reconstruction *cough*, I ask the questions of (a) has Iraq gotten its moneys worth? (NO!) and (b) is it in the interests of Iraq that the US continues to *hrumph* ‘reconstruct’ (NO!). My point is that you have done nothing worthwhile on this front, and have in fact stolen large sums of money from Iraq.
Secondly, the US * started * this war, and it is YOUR continued presence that prolongs it. It’s like beating a rape victim and justifying the beating because she is ‘resisting’. Of course, if the victim ceases resisting, then she will be chained to your arm forever, but will receive medical attention and food in exchange. What a deal, huh?
Thirdly, my point is that the consequences of invasion were entirely predictable. It was entirely predictable that a Shiite majority government would win any democratic election hands down, and that Iran would virtually own the place. Which is why, of course, the US tried its hardest to avoid anything approximating free elections. Nevertheless, now the predicted Shiite government is ‘in power’ … and the army that you are training for it is going to be used to further their ends, not yours. Hey, look, if they feel different enough from the rest of Iraq that they want Sharia imposed, that’s not my problem, good for them. Kinda sad for Kurds and secular Iraqis though. Of course you do realise that this IS the ultimate aim of SCIRI et al, don’t you? You do realise that effectively the US army is killing Ba’athi, as you call them, so that Islamic fundamentalists can take over? I ask you: are YOU happy about this? Do YOU think that this is a good way for America to spend its blood and money?
Alright, back to your post. You allege that Ba’athists have 30 years of Iraqi wealth in their bank accounts. I assume of course, that you can prove this. In which case, perhaps you ought to contact the CIA; I can assure you that those accounts will be frozen faster than a spitball in Antarctica. Think, you could be a hero!
Secondly, while I don’t dispute that the Ba’ath bankroll, finance and even carry out some attacks on the US Army, the reality is that the Resistance movement has transcended the Ba’ath and comprises people from every layer of society. There are many interviews with guerrillas available in which they reject the Ba’ath together with the Americans. It is rather telling that the national struggle picked up pace once Saddam was captured, is it not? This is because many Iraqis refused to fight as long as there was a chance that they would be fighting for the return of Saddam. His capture was a shot in the arm for national resistance, because Iraqis could then feel that they were truly fighting for their own freedom.
Furthermore, as I have monotonously pointed out, the ‘Resistance’ is not confined to Sunnis, or Ba’athists. The Ba’ath party had large amounts of Shia within its ranks. The Sadrist movement is neither Ba’ath nor Sunni, but is still anti Occupation. It comprises of large numbers of poor Shia (ie- the opposite of wealthy Ba’athists) who likewise do not see the US as welcome in Iraq.
Your entire argument is thus based on a distortion and drastic simplification of the nature of the Resistance movement.
It’s like me saying that this occupation is the direct result of British machinations and that Britain wants to return Iraq to the old colonial days and if they would only stop bankrolling the occupation all would be well, while completely ignoring the US presence and input.
To cap off this whole sorry parade of your lack of knowledge of the reality in Iraq, may I mention that Allawi is both a Ba’athist and in the employ of the CIA. May I mention that the US has paid many members of the old Ba’athist Iraqis Mukhbarat to continue on their old ways, except this time for a new master? Really, who IS paying and bankrolling Ba’athists in Iraq? That’s right – the USA itself.
Here’s but one example:
Old brutality among new Iraqi forces
By Jill Carroll, The Christian Science Monitor - Posted 5/3/2005
" [...] And in a report issued in January, Human Rights Watch said that torture and abuse by Iraqi authorities had become "routine and commonplace." The report detailed methods of interrogation in which prisoners were beaten with cables and pipes, shocked, or suspended from their wrists for prolonged periods of time — tactics that are more associated with Saddam Hussein's dictatorship than the democracy that is beginning to take root in that country.
[...]
In fact, many of the old members of Saddam Hussein's security forces are filling the ranks of the new police units and security forces. And many of these hardened soldiers practiced in the brutality of his regime initially received no Western-style training, says Robert Perito, an expert on post conflict security at the US Institute of Peace. "In the long run, with the assistance of the US military unfortunately ... [we are creating] a security force which is very much like the old Saddam security forces," says Perito. "That's not what we set out to do." " //end excerpt
That’s not what they set out to do?
It seems strange to me that time and time again, the rhetoric is not matched by the reality on the ground. Makes me wonder if there is any connection between the two concepts … and it seems as if the Ba’athist – hating US is just fine with Ba’athists, as long as those Ba’athists are on ITS side.
Can anybody other than me smell the dank reek of HYPOCRISY rising from US policy?
Dan --
I assure you that Hurria and I are two different entities entirely. She is Iraqi, I am not. What we have in common is a serious distaste for the adventures America routinely undertakes at the expense of other nations and peoples. It may be, in that case, that our rhetoric sounds the same. Get over it. There are thousands of us out here.
John in New Zealand –
[jinz] “If you can't show yourselves to be better, more moral, more civilised, more restrained than the terrorists, then you are no better than they are.”
War Groupie Answer: “Ah, but rest assured, the end result will be simply delicious! You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. The ends justify the means. We kill for peace. We had to destroy the village to save it … ETC, ETC.”
I suspect your post hit the nail on the head.
Democracy: government by the people, usually through elected representatives
It will be up to the Iraqi people to decide. They have barely even started on this road, give them a chance.
johninnz
"(Am I correct, Truthteller? Is that how you feel?)"
You are right that is how most of us feel.
Moron99,
It's interesting that you should mention that. Steven Vincent mentioned in his book that the "softening" influence of women seemed to be absent in Iraq. Perhaps that is what is needed. More women in influential rolls.
What say you, Truth Teller? Maybe a woman for President?
rolls = roles
Aaaaaaaah! In too much of a hurry.
Yes, he wrote a book with the same name. I don't know about Layla. In the book he mentions a woman he meets, but the name is different. He seems to have had a bit of a crush on the woman in the book.
Moron99 --
To recap :
(1) The imposed US reconstruction is an failure which has sapped what was left of the Iraqi funds to almost zero. The assertion that the US is hardly doing Iraqis a favour by continuing these operations thus holds. Thank you very much for saving us much time and yourself embarrassment by not contesting these facts.
(2) You did not respond to my assertion that the US is helping Islamic fundamentalism. I assume that either you are embarrassed by this turn of events or that you support this. Either way, the facts are there: on the Shia side of Islam, the US has managed to set the stage for the most organised and more importantly, * radical * Shias like SCIRI and Dawa to take power. Remember the US support for Iraq in its war with Iran? That was to stop exactly this result. Congratulations. On the Sunni side of Islam, you have managed to aggravate them worldwide, and to radicalise those that might never have had a problem with you before. Al Qaeda recruitment is UP. I’m neither Arab nor Muslim, and I’m incensed by US actions in Iraq. I can only imagine how devout Arab Muslims must feel. Congratulations.
(3) I see you have not contested the fact that the US is employing numerous Ba’athi with blood on their hands to crush dissent. This tells me that either you were ignorant of this fact, or knew about it and hoped you wouldn’t be caught out. Well, you have been. The same for the rest of your assertions on that matter.
Alright, in your comments to JohnNZ I see you are resorting to the old statistical Jedi mind trick. Really, I thought that by now you had more sense. The problem is, you are dealing with people that are INFORMED and who have the ACTUAL DOCUMENTS from which you suck your figures. But of course, counting from June 2004 is somewhat fallacious, isn’t it? Because the war in fact started in 2003.
To whit:
IBC – A Dossier of Civilian Casualties 2003 – 2005
Page 10, Killers By Category:
Killed by US-led Forces alone : 37,3 %
Anti-Occupation Forces alone : 9,5%
Predominantly Criminal Killings: 35,9%
Unknown Agents : 11,0%
THOSE, ladies and gentlemen, are the REAL percentages.
Of course, if I wanted to present figures a la Moron99, it would also be accurate to say that US forces, other criminals and unknown agents killed 84,2 % of all civilians. Accurate but not exactly truthful, right?
Really, Moron99, aren’t you ashamed of being caught out time and time again? What would your dear mother say if she knew you spent your time lying, distorting information and misleading people?
In your post to me you resort to religion and flawed logic in order to defend your position. Sorta scraping the bottom of the barrel now, aren’t we? Let’s take a surgical approach to the argument you have made, why don’t we?
The first fish in the barrel is this : [m99] “The right of self-determination is a thing. The right to choose their own government is a thing.”
You give the impression that the US is in Iraq to defend these concepts.
But in truth, the first thing that the US did in Iraq was arm Chalabi and turn him loose. Then it appointed Bremer as King and he re-wrote all the Iraqi laws by diktat. Instead of holding democratic elections, the US cancelled the results of municipal elections when the results were not to its liking. Instead of free elections, it organised ‘caucuses’ of handpicked puppet Iraqis. When Sistani pressed for elections, the US hummed and hawed and stalled all it could, until mass action forced the issue.
Reality check : the US is in Iraq to protect its own interests. If democracy happens to coincide with these, fine. If not, well, another form of government will be imposed. This scenario has happened time and time again. Even in democracies, the US continues to influence the course of events with methods deemed unacceptable for other countries to do to the States itself.
The second fish in the barrel is this: [m99] “In his final speech the prophet said that anything taken from a muslim without his willing consent is illegitimate. The right of self-determination is a thing.”
Indigenous government is a thing. Torture is also a thing. Communism is a thing. The lives of Iraqis lost in the invasions are things.
You are playing with words here, and twisting them to suit your own meaning. Let’s see who has taken what from whom: Who has profited from the invasion? Ah, American, non-Muslim, non- Iraqi companies. Well, I agree with the Prophet here. The imposed contracts are illegitimate.
This is linked to :
[m99] “The rights of free speech and protection from unlawful arrest is a thing.”
Of course when we read excerpts like these, your claims become somewhat hollow and hypocritical:
Kate Adie – Pentagon threatens to target journalists in Iraq. (RealAudio, 49 minutes into the broadcast.) Radio One interview
"Kate Adie: I was told by a senior officer in the Pentagon, that if uplinks — that is the television signals out of Baghdad, for example — were detected by any planes electronic media ... mediums, of the military above Baghdad ... they'd be fired down on. Even if they were journalists."
Tom McGurk: "Kate, sorry to interrupt you. Just to explain for our listeners. Uplinks is where you have your own satellite telephone method of distributing information."
Kate Adie: "The telephones and the television signals."
Tom McGurk: "And they would be fired on?"
Kate Adie: "Yes. They would be 'targeted down,' said the officer."
Tom McGurk: "Extraordinary!"
Kate Adie: "Shameless! He said, 'Well ... they know this ... they've been warned.'”
And excerpts like these:
“You asked for my evidence, Mr Ambassador. Here it is:”
In Iraq, the US does eliminate those who dare to count the dead
Naomi Klein - Saturday December 4, 2004 - The Guardian
“ […] The New York Times reported that "the hospital was selected as an early target because the American military believed that it was the source of rumours about heavy casual ties", noting that "this time around, the American military intends to fight its own information war, countering or squelching what has been one of the insurgents' most potent weapons". The Los Angeles Times quoted a doctor as saying that the soldiers "stole the mobile phones" at the hospital - preventing doctors from communicating with the outside world.
But this was not the worst of the attacks on health workers. Two days earlier, a crucial emergency health clinic was bombed to rubble, as well as a medical supplies dispensary next door. Dr Sami al-Jumaili, who was working in the clinic, says the bombs took the lives of 15 medics, four nurses and 35 patients. The Los Angeles Times reported that the manager of Falluja general hospital "had told a US general the location of the downtown makeshift medical centre" before it was hit. […]” //end excerpt
And FACTS like these,
How innocent Iraqis came to be abused as terrorists
USATODAY.com – June 2004
“So the chain of events seems to have worked like this: Rules violating the Geneva Conventions were invented for dealing with proven terrorists in specific places or circumstances. But they gradually came to be applied to hundreds of suspects, many of them innocent. Military officials said 70% to 90% of the Iraqis swept up for interrogation were arrested by mistake, the International Committee of the Red Cross reported.”
Hmmmm.
So, it does seem that US forces are GUILTY of what you say they are there to defend. Is this merely another case of destroying the village in order to save it? Or are American atrocities and violations excused simply because they are committed by Americans?
You drop another red herring when you divide, arbitrarily, the Iraqi Resistance into ‘legitimate’ and ‘illegitimate’ sections, and handily give us quantities for each. Your clumsy attempts to frame the terms of discussion are duly noted. Your lack of facts on the real numbers involved is also duly noted.
I suppose that the mixed Sunni / Shia protest against the US occupation in Firdous Square, numbering around 250 000 Iraqis, also managed to escape your notice. The Sadrists have in no way abandoned their resistance against the Occupation, they have merely changed the form of resistance from a violent to a non violent one. Both are legitimate.
OF COURSE the ultimate goal of the Iraqi resistance is power and money.
OF COURSE Iraqis would like to have power over their own country and their own oil revenues.
ANY IDIOT can see that this is the case. Lack of those two things means that you have neither a country nor control of your own destiny. You will forever be somebody’s slave.
The difference between Iraqis and the Americans is: the land and what is under it is actually the birthright of these people, whereas the Americans have NO, repeat, NO claim whatsoever to Iraq or its oil. The Neoconservative fantasies of oil pipelines to Israel (Clean Break document) and US bases in Iraq, whether Saddam was in power or not (PNAC – Rebuilding America’s Defences) are direct claims of ownership on foreign assets. They are direct claims of ownership on the lives, culture and land that belongs TO IRAQIS.
The US invaded with the idea of taking Iraqi power and money, and its actions have been directed toward that goal. Finding itself outmatched, it has tried to divide the country on ethnic lines and exploit that division. Now that things are slipping out of control (Central Iraq still in flames, the Kurds antagonising Turkey, the Shia allying with Iran) you are, for lack of a better word, in the shit.
Given that the US is essentially neither rebuilding anything, nor protecting the fruits of democracy, nor even killing Ba’athists, as has been claimed, but is rather having the opposite effect – given this, the real question is: why are you still there?
dan
"I have done a very good job of trying to give you an "out” and you have neither acknowledged it nor taken your leave on the matter."
You really did a very good job, I acknowledged your effort and thank you for that.
But:
"Still...this was NOTHING compared to Saddam Hussein's tactics."
Saddam is finished, there is no place to compare his tyranny to the US war crimes. Each is a different entity.
We don't want to change one dictator with many dictators.
The Federalist
This is a link to the Federalist Papers.
Dan "Muslims in general and Arabs in particular are never held to the same standards of behavior as white Americans."
This a typical American racial discrimination. What's about the black Americans? or chinese American?
I suggest you read "I found my self"
"It appears that war instigated by the United States is worse than mass murder, mass starvation, mass torture, mass rape, and genocide,"
The illegitimate war instigated by the US against a free country, involved all the bad things you mentioned and even more.
"Now, I suspect I will be censored by the "Truth Teller" for "insulting his religion." Yet it is the truth. "
You are right, Your post deserve to censored. and I will do that soon (not now), Just to let the other know why I did that.
"And if someone wants to call their self "Truth Teller" and then censor people, then I see no value in continuing to post on or read this blog."
That is your own choice.
Good bye then.
Ahhh, I see I'm not the only one who has problems with those things.
On some blogs the command works fine, on others no. Weird, huh?
"It appears that war instigated by the United States is worse than mass murder, mass starvation, mass torture, mass rape, and genocide, as long as its Muslims doing those things to other Muslims."
Tell me, Truth Teller, what is your opinion on Darfur?
dan
Your apologies are accepted. But I have to censore those posts which insult the Islam or the Muslim.
Nothing personal.
lynnette in minnesota
I am not a politician, but I know the situation in Darfor is not between Muslim and Muslim. It is a tribal problem which happened and still happening in other part of Africa.
"The Janjaweed (variously spelled Janjawid, Jingaweit, Jinjaweed, Janjawiid, Janjiwid, etc.) is an armed militia group in Darfur, western Sudan, comprising fighters of Muslim Arab background (mainly from the Baggara people). Since 2003 it has been one of the principal actors in the increasingly bloody Darfur conflict, which has pitted Arabs against the black African population (also Muslim) of the region. Its name translates as "a man with a horse and a gun," although it is more usefully translated as "armed men on horseback."
The Janjaweed is the successor to an earlier Arab tribal militia, the Murahilin (literally "nomads"), which had existed for many years beforehand"
Regardless of why they are fighting, the conflict in Sudan does pit Muslim against Muslim.
To only condemn the actions or perceived actions of the United States and not the actions of fellow Muslims is a little hypocritial isn't it? To think that because they are Muslim they can do no wrong is a dangerous form of denial.
Steven Vincent has been killed in Basrah.
Nour, his translator and the woman he mentions in his book, was wounded. They had been kidnapped by gunman driving an Iraqi police car. Initial suspicion is falling on followers of al-Sadr.
He was a good man who actually cared about Iraq.
"I'm beginning to think they are not worthy of the effort we are expending to bring them into the last century."
I hear you, Strykerdad. Those people who killed Mr. Vincent are not. They are simply a waste of space.
It is only when I think of people like Nour, Omar, Mohammed, Ali, Alaa, Zeyad, Nabil and so many others, that I think there is hope.
Another letter from the Citizens for Fair Legislation about the TREATMENT AND ILLEGAL DETENTION OF CHILD PRISONERS.
Citizens for Fair Legislation For Immediate Release August 3, 2005
********************************
CFL ALERT: TELL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST THE TREATMENT AND ILLEGAL DETENTION OF CHILD PRISONERS IN PALESTINE AND IRAQ.
TALKING POINTS:
*Please take a moment to write to your representatives and ask them to speak out against the illegal detention of children in Iraq and Palestine. Reports on the abuse at Abu Ghraib indicate that the Pentagon has proof (photographs and video) that detained Iraqi children are being sodomized and raped by American soldiers. In Israel, Palestinian children are also being held indiscriminately and illegally in violation of international law and human rights law.
Reports by Israeli human rights organizations indicate that like Iraqi children, Palestinian child detainees are regularly tortured and not allowed visits by either the Red Cross or their parents.
* In a report written last year called, 'Stolen Youth: The Politics of Israel's Detention of Palestinian Children' the authors interviewed a teenager who gave the following description of his treatment by the Israeli military: "Three more people in masks came into the room. They blindfolded me, put a hood over my head... they kicked and
slapped me. They beat me with a plastic pipe and whatever they could get their hands on. I couldn't see anything because I was blindfolded. I just felt the blows. That lasted ten to fifteen minutes... Later they stood me on a chair and told me to grab a pipe that was fixed to the wall. They removed the chair from under me and left me hanging in the air, with my handcuffed hands holding onto the pipe and the weight of my body, hanging in the air, drawing my hands downwards. They left the room." - Ismail Sabatin, 17 years old. Palestinian children being held by the Israeli military range between the ages of 9-17 years old, many of these children are being held without charges, others have
been held for months for merely throwing stones at Israeli tanks. Tell your representatives that because we give $12 billion dollars in American welfare to Israel a year that we have a moral obligation to demand that the Israelis end this despicable treatment of Palestinian children.
*Treatment of Iraqi children under the U.S. occupation forces is no better. Last week the Pentagon blocked the release of pictures of Iraqi children being raped and sodomized by American soldiers as publication of those pictures would have been a public relations disaster of the U.S. In an expose done by the Sunday Herald late last year a child witness of the abuse at Abu Ghraib gave a statement to investigators saying that he witnessed the rape of a boy who was 15 years old: "The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets. Then, when I heard the screaming I climbed the door … and I saw [the soldier's name is deleted] who was wearing a military uniform." The witness then described in graphic details how he witnessed that soldier rape "the little kid".
*The abuse of children by the United States and by the U.S.'s staunchest ally in the Middle East is unacceptable; it's time that we held our government accountable for the blatant violations of human rights occurring in Iraq and Palestine. Tell your representatives that you feel that the illegal detention of Palestinian and Iraqi children is deplorable and that as your elected officials you expect them to speak out against the cruel treatment of children. Remind your elected officials that none of these actions in Iraq or Palestine could occur without the tacit approval of the U.S. government.
EMAIL AND OR CALL THE WHITE HOUSE
WHITE HOUSE COMMENTS LINE: 202-456-1111
WHITE HOUSE SWITCHBOARD: 202-456-1414
WHITE HOUSE FAX: 202-456-2461
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Citizens for Fair Legislation is a grassroots organization committed to encouraging a fair domestic and foreign policy with an emphasis on the US/Arab world.
http://www.cflweb.org
But, Hurria, if we left who would you use as a scapegoat for everything that is wrong in Itaq?
Oops, that Itaq should be Iraq!
"who would you use as a scapegoat for everything that is wrong in Iraq?"
That won't be a problem, as soon as we leave, and if the baath or some other similar minded group takes over. Baghdad Bob would have his old job back, and
you would never hear any problems from Iraq. All would be well and dandy.
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