I wrote a post about what happened to me when an American soldier shot at me. That post brought a lot of comments from many Americans, some felt sorry for that action, others tried to find an excuse or to justify it.
But what happened yesterday, (Thursday) afternoon, about 5:00 PM is beyond justification.
My uncle, the only living one from my mother’s side, is about 80 years old, a healthy, handsome and good looking gentleman. He was in his way to bring his wife home; she was in a visit to her parents, when he was shot by American soldiers, he was alone in his car, no eye witness, several bullets penetrate his car, three of them penetrate his body, he died immediately.
Iraqi police were there, they found his ID, and his mobile, with phone list, they called my cousin, a university Prof. who went to the postmortem unit at the main hospital to receive the body, the American officer there told him "we are sorry."
It is as simple as this, they are sorry and every thing is settled, no problems, as far as the victim is an Iraqi.
There is another similar accident when the American Soldiers shot a family consist of a man, his wife and his daughter and killed them all.(this happened this week at Alhadba district in Mosul)
At the funeral, I heard many similar stories, all of them contain the same subjects but different detailes, innocent Iraqi civilians were killed at the hands of American soldiers for no obvious reasons. Or just because a scared boy holding a gun and and hidding behind his Stryker is protected from the law, this what changed him from a human to a monster.
GO HOME AMERICANS, WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE
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54 comments:
My condoloences on your loss, Truthteller.
"Go home Americans, we don't want you here."
"We are sorry."
That seems to sum it all up, really. Today's paper contains an article from the Independent describing how the neo-con architects of the invasion of Iraq are now having second thoughts.
e.g. William Buckley Jr. "The challenge required more than ... the deployable resources. The American objective in Iraq has failed."
Richard Perle. "The Administration ... got the war right and the aftermath wrong."
For Andrew Sullivan, "today's mess is above all a testament to American over-confidence and false assumptions, born of arrogance and naivety."
And so on.
Seems to me they are now saying what Iraqis like Truthteller have been saying for some time now. I think it is, "Look, we would have liked to be freed from Saddam's regime. But not your way. And not by you."
You weren't the right people to do it - just too ruthless and casual about the deaths of innocents.
Like 80-year-old motorists, for example.
JohninNZ
If there were no eye witness, " he was alone in his car, no eye witness" how do they know he was shot by an American soldier?
madtom
Iraqi police were there, they took the body to the hospital. also the accident happened some where near the Airport. where no insurgent can reach.
in addition an American soldier was there who pesent his sorrow for the accident "he said I am sorry".
If all these cannot convince you, then it is waste of time to try any more.
My condolances to you and your family for you loss. My prayers are with you and your family. Im so very very sorry =(
Madtom you are a pig with no respect at all. I cant believe youd say such a thing. I dont know where you come from but here it is the ultimate disrespect to slag the dead. Even if you dont like a person you dont say ANYTHING bad about them. How dare you for shame ??
I have contacted the online NYT where your account of your own near murder appeared, Mr Truthteller. Please give them all of your evidence and contacts with people you know have similar stories to tell. Hopefully, you have the name of the US soldier who admitted their guilt in the matter and the names or some of the Iraqi police who were there. If not, just give them the name or number of the police station and any other facts you have that leads you to know that Americans commited this crime. Encourage all of the people you know who have told you similar stories like the murdered family and get them to list all relevant facts. It appears that the story of the family wasn't even noted in the press! US soldiers roving the city and shooting down citizens is a big story and I assure you it will make front page headlines for days. Here is your chance to really make a difference in the resistance effort and do something for the people of your city. If you are unwilling or unable to contact them, give us the relevant facts here and we will press the issue from our side.
I never wanted my country to go into this war, but now that they are there, how exactly do they get out. Seriously, lets discuss exactly what happens if US leaves? What will be better, what will be worse? I am more and more convinced it would be better to leave, but that's just a gut feeling. I don't feel like I know what would result. I find it hard to argue for leaving without greater understanding of the consequences. I'm sure it would be better for me and my conscience as I was anti-war in the first place. But how many people in Iraq agree? Does it vary by sect, by geography?
Truth teller I am so sorry for your loss.
Please take care/ Nadia
Malamute____how was MT being disrespectful? It is a pretty obvious question. TT's entry isn't in the form of a reverent remembrance or his lost relative, it is an effort to portray American soldiers as thoughtless killers of innocent civilians. How is it wrong to ask for him to substantiate his claims? If he truly has evidence, he should be glad to respond and to have that evidence spread as widely as possible. There are plenty of news outlets still recycling the 3 year old pictures of Abu Ghraib, this would give them something new upon which to fixate. If all TT can give us is 'Iraqi police on the scene' 'no eyewitness' and "US soldier says 'We are sorry'", he isn't going to convince anyone other than those who feed on such incidents anyway. The comment above says it well, TT. If you have evidence, do what you claim is your mission and spread that truth effectively, or admit you can't or are unwilling to do what you claim is your purpose here. Is that an unfair request?
The same story I mentioned above has been reported by one of the local Iraqi news agency.
10 March 2006
"Five civilians including 2 women (one pregnant) and a child killed in an unprovoked attack by the American army in Mosul on 8 March 2006. The victims were in two separated cars in one of Al-Hadbaa district in Mosul when American soldiers opened fire killing them instantly."
The Arabic translation of the accident:
خاص-و.أ.عراقيون-الموصل( مصرع خمسة مدنيين بينهم طفل وامرأتين إحداهن حامل بنيران أمريكية)
لقي خمسة مدنيين بينهم طفل وامرأتين إحداهما حامل مصرعهم عصر اليوم الأربعاء 8 آذار في حي الحدباء بنيران القوات الأمريكية. وقال مصدر في مركز شرطة المستشفى وهو ما أكده مصدر في الطب العدلي لمراسل وكالة أنباء عراقيون إن الخمسة كانوا يستقلون سيارتين مدنيتين ضمن عدد من السيارات عند مرور رتل أمريكي في الحي المذكور فاشتبه بالسيارات وفتح أفراده النار عليها فأصابوا المجني عليهم في مناطق متفرقة من الجسم فلقوا حتفهم على الفور متأثرين بجروحهم، فضلا على الأضرار المادية الكبيرة التي لحقت بالسيارتين.
TT If the Iraqi police were there then did the witness this crime? If so you should take the advise given above.
The fact that it happened on the "airport road" only increases the possibility that your relative was shot by an insurgent, or just caught in the cross fire. The airport road in the most dangerous in the country and is dripping with insurgents.
The Americans soldiers sorrow for your loss is not an admission of guilt on his part. That could easily be a cultural or language misunderstanding.
I would like to offer you my sincere apology for my insensitivity. War fatigue, you have my condolences for you and your family on your resent loss.
Obviously this was a mistake by your uncle or Americans coming too close to the Strykers. Have you even thought that the Strykers are regularly attacked by Ansar al-Sunna (al-Qaeda offshoot and agent of Iranians) by suicide car bombers coming close? How come you do not explain all the details? What are you hiding?
Do you think in the era of free press and internet people are stupid and should not be given the details and should not get a FAIR report? Why do you insult your readers so much with hiding of the truth? Have some respect for our God of truth. Please try to be fair and have respect for us.
That is terrible news, TruthTeller. The man who shot your innocent uncle will one day have to account for his criminal action before God. I feel so helpless because nothing I say can alleviate your bitter loss and heartbreak - Iraqis have suffered so much. Americans: you have done more than enough damage; for all your talk of liberation and democracy, as a matter of fact you have achieved nothing except chaos and destruction that will take two generations or more to put right - and this cannot start until you leave Iraq - and your reputation around the world is probably irredeemable. But it's your fault for electing your fascist administration to power.
TT, your blog has been one continuous bitch about US involvement in Iraq since it began. I am truly sorry for the death of your Uncle. If he died at the hands of a US soldier, I am doubly sorry. But I do have one question for you which I would like answered. While you seem to take great pains in telling us the details when American soldiers accidentally shoot at or kill one or two Iraqi civilians (and I'm not making light of it, any death is tragic), you totally ignore the murders committed by suicide bombers in Iraq who drive or walk into crowded markets and blow themselves up killing 10, 20, 30 or more innocent civilians, all in the name of either Islam or the "resistance". Where is the balance in your "truth", Truth Teller?
You tell us to go home, believe me, we would like nothing better than to leave but we have a responsibility to your country to stay until you are capable of handling your own country. To date I have seen NO evidence that Iraqis' are able to move above the petty self interest that has plagued your various groups, sects and tribes for the past few hundred years
TruthTeller,
I am sorry to hear of the killing of your loved beloved uncle S.
I was one of the people who questioned you about your previous shooting in your own car.
I'll end the same way I did before: Please simply ask the Iraqi parliament to pass a law requesting American forces to leave. That is all it will take to get us out of Iraq rapidly. No IEDs or sniping required.
The US military trains their troops to kill and to see those they kill as less than human. I know because I watched how the military changed my friend who used to be a more caring individual. But by the time he was out he was wishing to be in a battle just to kill someone. So, it doesn't surprise me to hear your's or these other's stories. I know others in the military are sick of seeing death, lets hope that their numbers are more.
It bothers me that I'm driven to such hate to wish to do what they do, kill. I do not believe that violence brings about any good, but some times it feels like it would be the only thing they'd understand.
As far as impeaching Bush, I'd love to see it happen, but over half the leaders in Washington are his lap dogs who ignore the pleas of those who never wanted this and want change. I can only hope the these congress people will be removed this November.
I suspect that Madtom may be thinking of the airport road in Baghdad, which is indeed one of the most dangerous places in Iraq. (Or was: apparently it is better now.)
Again, I don't get it. Madtom, Strykerdad and other anonymous contributors seem to be detirmined to prove that Truthteller is lying when he reports about being shot at himself, or his uncle being shot. Apparently their motive is to argue that US troops could not have committed such crimes.
But why are they wasting their time posting on the Blog of a man they consider to be a liar. Wouldn't it be simpler for them to just go away?
For myself, I would concede a 5% possibility that Truthteller is making things up. But when I look at his daughter's painfully honest Blog, when I remember his reports about the shortages at his Clinic, the real attempts of some corespondents to help him, and his gratitude for their efforts, then all the circumstances combine to persuade me that there is a 95% chance that he is honest in what he writes.
95% is good enough for me.
Instead of wasting your time calling TT a liar, why don't some of you right-wing-nuts actually read the Independent article posted above. (You know, read: look at the words, absorb their meaning, think about them.)
Then say something intelligent about things like "the American objective in Iraq has failed."
It's sure failed for Truthteller and his family.
Johninnz
I’ve read all the messages in this and the preceding post referencing the unprovoked killings of Iraqi citizens by coalition forces. Let me first say this is wrong and avoidable, understandable by some, but none the less avoidable. However, I am struck by a recurring theme articulated by what I can only assume are Iraqi citizens who wish for the immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq. Is your hate of Americans so strong that you would jeopardize the futures of your families and continue feed the violence and meaningless killing in Iraq? Would you willingly cut off your nose to spite your face? There is an encouraging situation developing in Al Anbar that may lead to meaningful security in that province. Recently, Sunni tribal leaders and clerics have taken to expelling Al Qaeda in Iraq from the province. They have grown tired of there tactics that indiscriminately target the local population. They have felt enough grief and sorrow for the loss of their own, at the hands of these false believers. I am not naive enough to believe that this is happening as a show of support for the coalition forces or for that matter as a means to supporting the Iraqi Government. None the less it is encouraging. I served 14 months in Mosul most of that time witnessing some particularly difficult times for this great city. I watched as the Iraqi Army (mostly Kurds and Iraqi Commandos for this specific instance) and American forces fought to restore peace in November of 2004. I also watched the citizen’s of Mosul standing by and gawk as the entire situation unfolded with tacit compliance bordering on encouragement. I assisted in the recovery of countless numbers of citizens killed and then disposed of like trash in the cemetery on the North-West corner of the city. I was in Tal Afar in August and September 2004 and witnessed foreign insurgents wreak havoc on there citizens, many of whom had that same tacit compliance. It was real and it was some of the most disturbing examples of atrocities I’ve ever witnessed. You don’t need the Mayor of Tal Afar to tell you. I suspect as a Doctor you know all to well about all of these circumstances. So with that in mind and having lost many of my brothers in Iraq I would like to know. When will Iraq’s take responsibility for Iraq? When will the citizens make the choice to secure their future and the future of their granddaughters? Stop blaming and start fixing. It was not the Soldiers decision to go to Iraq, but none the less he is there and he will stay until he is successful. There is no excuse for the unwarranted killing of any people. This is unfortunate and unavoidable and not to be taken lightly. We all feel pain and morn the loss of our loved ones. Regardless of what side of an issue we find ourselves on. However if the people stood up to the problem and more importantly those who seek to forge their future through violence and worked with Iraqi’s to move toward security and stability. There would be no need to suspect the vehicle slowing down to allow you to pass may in fact end your life. I would much rather rage in the light and work in the open for my future than have it dictated to me by those whose motives are unknown, whose nationalities are not my own and who choose to hide in the shadows and intimidate. You can be sure the American Soldier in Iraq wants nothing more than to return home knowing he or she made a difference in helping the people of Iraq and securing the peace and security they deserve. I only wish they Iraqi people felt as strongly about securing there future. Your hate of Americans is a giant step back for you, and will never bring you what you want. Fix your problems stop killing each other and throw of the oppressive intent of your neighbors and we will be gone soon. TT I can tell you’re a kind a descent man. Only a man possessing these qualities could raise such a wonderful, intellectual, and kind family. May you be graced with the will to act and make a difference in your world. Please stay safe.
Madtom was described by French paratrooper Pierre Leullette in "St. Michael and the Dragon," his account of his service in Algeria:
Despite strict orders, I escape to Algiers as often as I possibly can. I have been silent among jailers so long I feel myself becoming vile, and what is more serious, I feel that in my mind the scandal of all these crimes that make up our day-to-day war is daily losing a little of its virulence.
To civilians capable of talking calmly about the army - there aren't many, but they do exist even in Algiers in 1957 - I tell about what I see every day. They have always had a lofty idea of the greatness of France. They listen politely. But I sense their disbelief. They are thinking: "This isn't possible. We'd have known about it." Will they ever know about it? The German people, after the war, never stopped saying, and it was probably true: "We didn't know . . ." Have they ever really believed in the crimes of Dachau and of Auschwitz? Have they ever realized that not knowing is also a way of being guilty?
Looking back on those Germans, and on those Frenchman who talked just like you, do you really want to be as disgusting as rthey are in their blank denial? If it would have been good for them to humble themselves and confront the vileness of the nation and army they worshipped, as John the apostle advised, it might be good for you too.
Colonial wars are vile, because they are the fruit of the empty conceit of those who elect themselves guides of the lesser breeds, and such a tree of pride can only yield bad fruit. It is the vile mission of American soldiers in Irag, proceeding from the satanic spirit of pride, which makes them vile - just as noble deeds done from humility purify people.
madtom
Thank you for your feeling.
The airport road in Mosul is not like that of Baghdad, it is not so dangerous.
BTW, there are more information about the accident. My cousin went this morning to (Al Dawasa police station) where the car of his father was kept. There were at least 10 holes of bulllets on the front class, with one hole at the left door near the driver. The front of the car was severely damaged as if it is hitted by a heavy object.
The fact he had been shot by American soldier is beyond question, but there is suspecion that there were strykers in the road he entered and he didn't noticed them. He knew the area very well as his wife's parent live there and he visits them frequently.
As a matter of fact, we consider the American soldier's sorrow as a good sign. it is very rare they confess of killing innocent civilians.
As the policemen in the police station said, the Americans take picture of the car and check the ID of the dead body in order to componsate for the damage !! How could they componsate for a life??
I would like to go on record as opposing the "accident" explanation and the entire practice of shooting at vehicles which have shown no overt signs of being hostile other than failing to stay the hell away from US troops.
The situation seems to be that US troops are in the habit of directing traffic with weapons rather than signs and signal lights. In the US, if a cop wants a driver to pull over or stop he uses a light and a siren to signal him, he does NOT shoot at him. Police cars are painted in distinctive colors. A police operation going along the road on is visible for miles because all the cars have multicolored light flashing.
Compare this to Iraq. Military vehicles and soldiers are painted in camoflage colors. I have NEVER seen a picture of a tank or Stryker vehicle with flashing lights on it. The first warning an Iraqi gets that a US soldier wants him to stop is apparently the sight of a gun or the sound of a bullet whistling past his head, assuming that the shooter is intent on giving a warning rather than killing a presumed criminal with out trial or judgement.
Directing traffic using weapons is absurd. US military vehicles should have lights and sirens like American police cars and use them appropriately.
Johninnz, no one is trying to make TT into a liar, but TT is engaged in propaganda as his way of battling the 'occupation' while labeling himself as the 'Truthteller'. He comes at everything with that purpose in mind and jumps to conclusions about 'facts' and incidents that put the US troops in the worst possible light, not sometimes, but every time. Isn't it amazing that his city is 'occupied' by ruthless, uncaring, undisciplined soldiers that he feels free to malign on a global stage? Just how can that be? Is it because he is a courageous man? Because he is anonymous? The answer to both is no, it is because those soldiers are none of those things and he does not fear them unless he finds himself driving alongside a patrol, as he should be for all concerned. He is like most all Iraqis: full of contradictions and confusions rendering him unable to take advantage of the possibilities presented. They want to be carried, or dragged if neccesary, to the place they want to go, but don't expect them to give you directions to where that place is or even a description of what it looks like. They just know it is good and they don't want to have to actually do anything or suffer in the process of geting them there. Don't leave us here, don't make us leave, don't make us walk! It is like dealing with a toddler barely out of infancy, but without the cuteness to make it all bearable.
Additional details always put a different light on what he originally reports. From the damage he now reports and the efforts of the US in the aftermath, we can conclude this is was a tragic accident of the type that is bound to happen when armed patrols on civilian roads come into contact with innocents interspersed with highly deadly combatants who threaten US patrols and innocents alike. Yes, these things will happen. Traffic accidents or near traffic accidents become shooting incidents. Sounds flippant and uncaring, but not if you consider what the alternative would be if those patrols were not taking place.
These patrols are what separates Mosul from the absolute chaos and mayhem it became over a year ago from the relatively safe place it is today. You think you know something about the airport road in Mosul? If you really do, then you know what I'm talking about and you know it is not the same place and remains so for a reason. It is because of the sacrifice of those US Stryker patrols who would be blamed should the terrorist return and who are blamed when their efforts to prevent that return inevitably result in tragic events such as this. As the violence decreases, people are more likely to take to the streets, become less alert and the potential for such incidents increases. And the apparent unwillingness of the citizens to set aside petty tribal, sectarian, and ethnic concerns to pick up garbage, much less form a government and fight agains anarchy, is probably leading US soldiers to be even more unwilling to risk casualties in their behalf.
When Mosul was at its worst, the US troops were blamed, when they secured the city, they were blamed, when they maintain a level of security with their presence, they are blamed. Of course they are blamed! They removed Saddam! When Saddam invaded Kuwait, was removed, stayed in power because too few Iraqis rebeled against his Army, sancitons were instituted... who was blamed in EVERY case? We know the answer, don't we?
What would happen if an Arab country living under a brutal boot of oppression suddenly had that boot removed so that they are free to form a society of their choosing? Well, that is longer an academic question. The short answer, they blame anyone and everyone for everything past present and future. Everyone but themselves, that is. Maybe we have learned something today. Maybe we should just go back to installing and supporting the brutal dictators that best serve our interests and remember the Iraqi people when blame is directed our way or they do things that make us cringe. Where is the Shah when you need him, and who was the misguided idiot who turned his back on him? Maybe we didn't learn anything today, we sure as hell didn't back then.
Truth Teller is speaking as would any American, including "anonymous" today, if they faced a foreign army occupying them and doing the same sorts of things for them that the Americans are doing forIraqis today. Jesus said, "Do to others as you would have them do to you," but "anonymous" thinks he knows better.
Peter the apostle wrote, "Do not suffer as a murderer, an evidoer, a thief, or as an overseer of the affairs of others." You do one of these, you'll end up doing them all, because they are all one in the end. Because Americans like "anonymous" consider themselves superior to Iraqis and other lesser breeds, as did the Nazis, they act the same and find ways - like "good Germans" in those days - to justify the same behavior, becoming murderers, evildoers, and thieves just as Peter wrote. Such monstrosity must be opposed now as it had to be then, but I fear that when we're done, these people with their nuclear bombs and the desire to use them will make the Nazis seem like a happy memory.
original_jeff
"Please simply ask the Iraqi parliment to pass a law requesting American forces to leave."
Pleased to hear from you again.
You are speaking about real Parliment, ours is an image of parliment with no spirit.
Every body is looking for his own interest. They are realy benefited from the chaos. They will never request the American to leave. They will never listen to me or to you.
TT Just checking in on you after reading this:
Violence has claimed the lives of nine medical doctors in the northern city of Mosul, prompting many others to flee.
The head of Mosul Medical Syndicate Mahmoud Qassem said the doctors “have been liquidated” in the midst of violence that has gripped the city since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.
He said the “cold-blooded killings” have terrified the medical staff forcing at least 60 other doctors to leave.
“Some of those who have left abroad or their families were abducted and only set free after paying huge amounts of money,” said Qassem."
Azzaman
Let's just hope you were not prophesying your own future with your title. Be safe.
Oh by the way, I just love being called a "right wing nut", makes my day every time. I'll be thinking about it and laughing for at least a week.
Truth teller - I am happy that the truth is finally coming out. Thank you.
So it is now determined the event was an error, where both sides were responsible. Your uncle drove into the Stryker, and the gunner mistook it as a suicide carbomb and killed your uncle. This accident is very unfotunate.
I second the suggestion that you should go to your parliament representative and ask for US withdrawal. That is the fastest and most peaceful and patriotic way to get the Americans out.
The only way for Iraq is through democracy and parliamentary politics. Trying to take the law into your own hands and attack people you do not like with guns and RPGs is like curing a sick patient with a hammer and a saw. It is senseless and irrational.
If your Parliament representative does not listen to you, well don't elect him. Could it be that he can see the bigger picture, and that is why he may not agree with your knee-jerk reactions?
If the problem is lack of security in Mosul, then why do you encourage people with AK-47 and RPG to attack the police and Americans? If the problem is lack of medicine and material, what is stopping you from pulling up your sleeves and going after solutions?
Constant whining and looking at the hands of the government to assist and help you, is not the way a real patriot thinks or works.
I am sorry to say you are not a good patriot. You are just a simple nationalist who is unwilling to submit to democracy and civil society and free markets.
I am convinced that you want religious shariah law and dictatorship of a few of your own kind. Pls. show me that I am wrong.
Dear Truth Teller,
my condoleances for the loss of your uncle, at the hands of the murderous invaders.
I do agree 100% with the comments by Albatroz and Peter Attwood, so no need to repeat myself what they said.
I would like to go on record as opposing the "accident" explanation and the entire practice of shooting at vehicles which have shown no overt signs of being hostile other than failing to stay the hell away from US troops.
Even though I share your concern, it would be suicide to follow your recommendation in the current environment in Iraq.
US troops are engaged in war not a police action, putting "flashing lights" would only increase their visibility as targets. The terrorist who engage in a guerrilla war and that use terrorist tactics like using civilian cars as military weapons are to blame for the current situation. That said I will also grant and go on record my dissatisfaction with the current administration handling of the situation. The terrorist know exactly what they are doing. They are driving a wedge between the Iraqi people and the US troops. They use this tactic in many ways, they attack children when they take candy or gifs from soldiers, they attack any and all reconstruction efforts, and of course they use civilian cars as weapons.
The administration needs to find a way to counter this threat and get closer to the Iraqi people and interact with them directly. Building walls between us and the Iraqis only plays into the hands of the terrorist.
We need not only to engage but also empower the Iraqi public.
Here is an excerpt from the Sunday Telegraph article about the former SAS trooper (see Claude Dorsel's comment, above):
After three months in Baghdad, Ben Griffin told his commander that he was no longer prepared to fight alongside American forces.
He said he had witnessed "dozens of illegal acts" by US troops, claiming they viewed all Iraqis as "untermenschen" - the Nazi term for races regarded as sub-human.
The decision marks the first time an SAS soldier has refused to go into combat and quit the Army on moral grounds. ... Mr Griffin, 28, who spent two years with the SAS, said the American military's "gung-ho and trigger happy mentality" and tactics had completely undermined any chance of winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi population. He added that many innocent civilians were arrested in night-time raids and interrogated by American soldiers, imprisoned in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison, or handed over to the Iraqi authorities and "most probably" tortured. ... "I did not join the British Army to conduct American foreign policy," he said. He expected to be labelled a coward and to face a court martial and imprisonment after making what "the most difficult decision of my life" last March.
Instead, he was discharged with a testimonial describing him as a "balanced, honest, loyal and determined individual who possesses the strength of character to have the courage of his convictions".
For non-British readers here, perhaps it should be explained that the British SAS (the Special Air Service) is the best special forces unit in the world. Normally, their identities are kept secret until after they leave the service.
Here is a further article, in the same paper (which is read by right-wing voters in Britain):
"If we were on a joint counter-terrorist operation, for example, we would radio back to our headquarters that we were not going to detain certain people because, as far as we were concerned, they were not a threat because they were old men or obviously farmers, but the Americans would say 'no, bring them back'.
"The Americans had this catch-all approach to lifting suspects. The tactics were draconian and completely ineffective. The Americans were doing things like chucking farmers into Abu Ghraib [the notorious prison in Baghdad where US troops abused and tortured Iraqi detainees] or handing them over to the Iraqi authorities, knowing full well they were going to be tortured. ... On another operation, Mr Griffin recalls his and other soldiers' frustration at being ordered to detain a group of men living on a farm.
He said: "After you have been on a few operations, experience tells you when you are dealing with insurgents or just civilians and we knew the people we had detained were not a threat.
"One of them was a disabled man who had a leg missing but the Americans still ordered us to load them on the helicopters and bring them back to their base. A few hours later we were told to return half of them and fly back to the farm in daylight. It was a ridiculous order and we ran the risk of being shot down or ambushed, but we still had to do it. The Americans were risking our lives because they refused to listen to our advice the night before. It was typical of their behaviour."
"As far as the Americans were concerned, the Iraqi people were sub-human, untermenschen. You could almost split the Americans into two groups: ones who were complete crusaders, intent on killing Iraqis, and the others who were in Iraq because the Army was going to pay their college fees. They had no understanding or interest in the Arab culture. The Americans would talk to the Iraqis as if they were stupid and these weren't isolated cases, this was from the top down. There might be one or two enlightened officers who understood the situation a bit better but on the whole that was their general attitude. Their attitude fuelled the insurgency. I think the Iraqis detested them."
I was very angry, and still am, at the way the politicians in this country and America have lied to the British public about the war. But most importantly, I didn't join the British Army to conduct American foreign policy." ... "I do believe passionately in democracy and I will speak out about things which I think are morally wrong. I think the war in Iraq is a war of aggression and is morally wrong and, more importantly, we are making the situation in the Middle East more unstable. It's not just wrong, it's a major military disaster. There was no plan for what was to happen after Saddam went, no end-game."
A major military disaster. May Bush and Blair rot in hell.
Comment by Max Hastings, in the Sunday Telegraph(Hastings reported the Falklands War, 20 years ago, and was in fact the first British person to walk - unarmed - into Port Stanley after the cease-fire).
Here is a quote from a British security contractor in Iraq about his American counterparts: "I hate those bastards more than the scumbag insurgents." A British colonel recently returned from a tour in the country said that, in our next war, he would sooner fight alongside the Russians than the US. ... This is another quote from a British security contractor: "I'm also convinced that many Americans hate the Iraqis, not just the insurgents but all Iraqis… What a mess."
"I've had conversations with many [US security contractors] and regular US soldiers who are evangelical Christians," writes John Geddes, the ex-SAS soldier quoted above, "who see themselves in a crusade against the Muslim hordes. In my view, they're not much different to the Iraqi militiamen and foreign fighters who see themselves at the heart of a jihad against the Christian crusaders." ... From the day the first American forces crossed the border into Iraq in 2003, neither they nor their government have resolved the issue of whether they are there to serve Iraqi interests, or those of the United States. Whatever Washington may say, most Americans think they are working for their own country.
From President Bush downwards, the doctrine has been propagated that every insurgent engaged and killed in Iraq is one less to assault the US homeland. "Force protection" - the welfare of those wearing US uniforms - is the governing factor in any tactical situation. Only a tiny handful of American servicemen have been disciplined, far less put on trial, for excesses in combat that have cost civilian lives.
My question, if the SAS is the only one to take this action after 3 years, why is that? Could it be that just maybe he is the one with the problem and disgruntled for whatever reason? Maybe a US soldier rejected his affections or something....or are the rest of the SAS inferior to him?
I am puzzled by the statement of Anonymous 2.41 above that Truthteller's uncle "drove into a Stryker."
All that Truthteller said was "there were strykers in the road he entered and he didn't noticed them."
Have I missed something?
With regard to the two incidents that Truthteller has told us about recently, I think the key question (which unfortunately can probably never be answered) is this:
What proportion of these shootings (checkpoint, drive-by, convoy etc) have targetted actual for-real suicide bombers or terrorists?
I mean, if 9 out of ten of those shot at are "bad guys" out to get you, well maybe that's war, or something.
But if only 1 out of ten are genuine and legitimate targets, and the rest are just guys like Truthteller and his uncle, then don't we have to say that that's a pretty panicky chickenshit army that you got out there, ole' buddies?
I wonder whether Truthteller would like to offer us a guess? From his experience and knowledge, what proportion of Iraqis shot on the roads of Mosul by US soldiers actually needed to be shot, i.e. they were genuinely about to attack the soldiers?
The point being, of course, that a "shoot on suspicion" policy is more or less what that SAS trooper was complaining about. Definitely no way to win hearts and minds. Or to defeat and insurgency.
If 9 out of ten shootings were unwarranted, then you're creating insurgents a damn sight faster than you're killing them.
Johninnz
Speaking of the US Army in Iraq, I am also very puzzled by that Zogby poll of US troops in Iraq, 75% of whom want to get out. The poll also said that " 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,”"
By now, most of the world knows that Saddam, and Iraq, had nothing to do with 9/11. It was Al Qaeda and the Saudis, right?
So what is this telling us?
(a) 85% of US troops in Iraq can't read?
(b) 85% of US troops in Iraq are brainwashed?
(c) 85% of US troops in Iraq are Dick Cheney?
(d) all of the above?
Very puzzling indeed.
Johninnz
I am so very sorry for your loss, truthteller.
It is clear to me that an American did the killing, otherwise they would not have apologized for it. What is not clear is how much of an accident it was... or wasn't. The fact that they are sorry is certainly better than not being sorry, but I imagine it is not much consolation to you and your family for your horrible loss.
someone above said:
"You tell us to go home, believe me, we would like nothing better than to leave but we have a responsibility to your country to stay until you are capable of handling your own country."
First, Bush does not intend to leave, ever.
Second, the US does have a responsiblity to Iraq, however, even minimal following of the news around the globe shows the situation keeps getting worse and worse and worse... the longer American forces are there. There may be a few minor exceptions, but overall, our military presence is making things worse.
Third, the Iraqis are quite capable of handling their own country. To think otherwise is racist.
To anonymous, 3/13/2006 12:00:40 AM : you need some cultural context. In the UK, the Telegraph newspaper is the British military's unoffical channel for expressing doubts about Government policy. That that report appeared in the Telegraph, not in the Guardian, means that it carries significantly more weight.
And the fact that Griffin left the SAS with such a good testimonial, in which he was described by his superiors as - "balanced, honest, loyal and determined individual who possesses the strength of character to have the courage of his convictions" - indicates that others think that his stand is reasonable.
The sadness is that the British army needs people of the calibre of Griffin - intelligent, courageous, professional, interested in other cultures, compassionate, not trigger-happy like Americans - and it is the aggressive and illegal American military adventures in Iraq that have repelled him to the point where he felt that he had to resign from the SAS.
I'm reading this here, and utterly I'm disgusted. I sat down and read this man's blog and his daughter's blog. His uncle has been killed by an American Soldier. I go to comment on his condolences and what do I see?
A/ Let's call this man a liar.
B/ Let's dispute the facts so his elderly uncle deserved to be shot.
C/ Let's call it basically collateral damage, stop complaining and stand up for your country!
I honestly am flabbergasted. Imagine one of your relatives was just shot dead, your father or your uncle. Picture that..
Now imagine me telling you that it was his own fault, the soldier responsible was under a lot of pressure and how I should stop complaining about everything and stand up for my country.
Jesus people, develop a sense of shame.
Hey, just thought I'd share this one:
"...the US Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, told a Senate inquiry in Washington that Iraq's political leaders needed "to recognise the seriousness of the situation and form a government of national unity that will govern from the centre, and to do it in a reasonably prompt manner"."
Right. I can just see George Bush forming a "government of national unity" with a Cabinet made up Republicans, Democrats and independents.
Very much a case of "do as we say, not as we do."
No wonder Truthteller says "we don't want you here."
I thought the Taliban were as looney as you could get, but they seem to have been quite sane compared to to the weirdos running the USA today.
Guess who
Johninz - go to Iraq Body Count or icasualties.org. There are NOT that many Iraqis killed by Americans due to running checkpoints or coming close to Strykers. Your selective outrage is misplaced.
TT and his family are avid Sunni Islamists who have this bloated dignity. If they see a Stryker they will NOT pull over, because they feel humiliated. They think that obeying the law is same as humiliation. They take risks and end up in ambigious situations.
Like when the Stryker had to pass TT's car. If I see an ambulance coming by, I PULL ASIDE AND STOP MY CAR. I dont take it an affront to my honor and national dignity.
If TT and his family treat the Strykers as ambulances or police cars on emergency, they will not have this problem.
Anonymous (Strykerdad) above:
(a) Law? What law? Is there an article in the Iraqi Constitution, or some sort of Emergency Regulation, which states that Iraqi motorists must keep 100 metres away from Strykers at all times? Should they get out of their cars and eat some dirt if they are aware of Strykers anywhere in their suburb?
(b) As I understand it, TT didn't see the patrol that shot at him because they came from behind him, on a parallel road, not the one he was on, and didn't have any sirens going.
What's he meant to do, carry radar tuned to detect approaching assholes?
(c) I hope you have definite proof that TT's uncle was an "avid Sunni Islamist" with "bloated dignity." Otherwise you are slandering a dead old man, which is about as low as you can go.
(d) Your attitude seems to be exactly that of my memories of my childhood in a British Colony where the natives had to show due respect towards their white masters, or else.
(e) Upchuck!
Johninnz
Hey, more lunacy:
"Like many Iraqi and Arab observers, Muqtada was shocked when US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said last week that the US military would not intervene in an Iraqi civil war, leaving that to Iraqi forces.
' "May God damn you," Sadr said of Rumsfeld. "You said in the past that civil war would break out if you were to withdraw, and now you say that in case of civil war you won't interfere." '
When Muqtada starts making more sense than Rummy, you've got to know that you're in trouble.
Still, doubtless the citizens of Mosul will gather to wave a tearful farewell as the Stryker Brigade withdraws.
My selective outrage is misplaced.
Guess who
"Like when the Stryker had to pass TT's car. If I see an ambulance coming by, I PULL ASIDE AND STOP MY CAR"
Don't you think that the striker will be even more confused? We do not want the striker to think that there is a bomb in the car and the intention of stopping is to abandon the car.
Faisal, johnninz - that is the law. You have to pull over to the side and stop. Every driver knows that. TT knows that. But he said he was not looking in his mirrors. And once the stryker passed, he did NOT pull over.
When I pull over for an ambulance or a police car on emergency, I do not feel that my national dignity has been insulted and that I have been humiliated. Do you?
Faisal - the strykers have large signs that say "PULL OVER" in Arabic. This is the FACT.
And then TT goes and tells the NYT that he was targetted for assassination. And you pomos have nothing to say about FACTS.
What Rumsfeld said was that the Iraqi army will be able to take care of a civil war outbreak. Rumsfeld also said that US forces will intervene if necessary. It is indeed a sad day when ideologically crimped westerners and the reactionary postmoderns start uncritically believing a molla spewing hatred and civil war. Then that shows they have no idea what is happening in Iraq, and do not give a rat's behind for the people of Iraq.
In fact my guntruck had a siren and flashing lights. They were VERY effective. Oncomming traffic and merging traffic would halt. In 22,000 miles in central Iraq January through November 2005 we never shot at anyone in traffic. I a proud of that. Why do other gunners shoot so much? Fear and misguided hatred, in that order. My gunner and I decided pretty early on to take that slight risk of death by carbomb rather than murded innocents. A couple of times we thought we'd made the wrong decision, and once as an LN vehicle rolled up to us, we were sure we were about to die. We were foolish, brave, empathetic and right.
11B3V
Your attitude seems to be exactly that of my memories of my childhood in a British Colony
Finally!!!! this is big, we finally know what itches jhoninnz. I knew it had to be something, and I apologies for my other guesses which I wont repeat here.
[anonymous] “Trying to take the law into your own hands and attack people you do not like with guns … ”
Isn’t that exactly what America did? Took the law into it’s own hands and invaded Iraq ? Yet here you are arguing that this sort of behaviour is a bad thing … when will the hypocrisy end?
[anonymous] “Johninz - go to Iraq Body Count or icasualties.org. There are NOT that many Iraqis killed by Americans due to running checkpoints or coming close to Strykers. ”
The basic fact remains that IBC bases its results on news reports, three of which have to reports the same incident in order for it to be mentioned. The fact is that a random shooting like this is not exactly high profile enough to make it to print, or necessarily even to be noticed. It is misleading to use these sources as barometers of these incidents.
On US soldiers leaving Iraq:
It is quite obvious following the Askariya bombing that American forces either lack the capacity or the will to intervene in any civil war. They stood back and watched Iraqis slaughter each other. The latest statements by Rumsfeld only confirm this. Now that the last fig leaf of an excuse for staying in Iraq has fallen away … is it not time for the US to get out? Otherwise, what is it doing in Iraq, other than killing innocent motorists and families?
Americans, go home. There is no reason left for you to stay anymore.
faisal
It seems to me that the soldier who shot me was just joking or playing. He didn't ment to kill me and he didn't shot as a warning either!!
b will derd
"hope TT will allow this last effort"
with my pleasure
anonymous at 3/15/2006
I am sure there are people like you and your gunner, brave, responsible and right, I can describe them as "a real soldiers". But unfortunateley the bad guys are more than the good guys in your troops in Iraq.
Thang you for saving the life of innocent citizens.
This week another man, a middle age christian citizen has been killed in his car by American soldiers at Hay Al-Sukkar in mosul in the same incident as that of my uncle, he was in his way home after he recieve his food ration from the local market in the neighborhood about 50 meters from his house.
He is the seventh victim (in four cars) within 10 days.
It seems to me that those ignorant soldiers never learn from their mistakes.
TT, I suggest you get a group of elders together and go over to the Stryker base and have a meeting with the US commander.
You need to have hard facts. Emotional drivel so common will not work. You have to have real numbers and names of victims, and witnesses, as to how many innocent Iraqis killed by Strykers in the past week, month, quarter, and year. Also data on how many Strykers attacked by carbombers or drive-by shooters.
This is what I mean by rolling your sleeve up and doing your patriotic duty. Take the data with you to the commander and discuss the issue with him.
If he agrees to your data, but says there is nothing to be done, then I will start believing in your complaints.
Incessent whining and telling NYT that you were targetted for assassination (!), when it was clearly a warning shot for you coming too close to a Stryker with blaring sirens and emergency beacon, is not going to increase your credibility on this forum with people who care for the truth, and who really matter.
anon. above
"when it was clearly a warning shot for you coming too close to a Stryker with blaring sirens and emergency beacon,"
From where you get this shit, I never said that, and it is not true.
Is it the American way of tilting the truth to justify their illegal and unfair acts??
The truth there was no sirens, and no emergency beacon, the first warning was a bullets passed few centemeters from my head, enter from the window next to the driver and exited from the opposite window.
What about the killing of my uncle, the 2 families and the last victim (the christian), are they also comming too close to the Stryker?
Why you put your emotion first when analysing such atrocities?
[anon] “ My gunner and I decided pretty early on to take that slight risk of death by carbomb rather than murded innocents. A couple of times we thought we'd made the wrong decision, and once as an LN vehicle rolled up to us, we were sure we were about to die. We were foolish, brave, empathetic and right.”
In the context of a guerrilla war, what you did was completely correct. US doctrine of “force protection” is exactly the wrong way to behave if you want to defuse tensions and contribute to stability. While the US military is great at a conventional war, it absolutely sucks at asymmetrical warfare, and as long as it continues to be what it is … it always will. The British have a much better idea of how to behave in these circumstances.
BTW, did you at all get into trouble with your superiors for your siren and lights?
Finally, kudos for your personal stance and decision to act like this.
Truthteller --
It is best to ignore people like that 'anonymous' at 5:56. They deliberately misread your words and link two posts which have no relation to one another. The soldier with the sirens clearly stated that he was an exception. They will just make you angry for no reason.
Believe me, the American's DON'T want to be in Iraq any more than you want them there.
We hate this war as well ... and I DO believe you when you say they are getting away with murder, it's terrible. The American soldiers are well trained, but that doesn't mean they aren't scared - which makes them trigger happy.
They don't want to die either ... it's a terrible situation, I feel so sorry you have to live through this.
The article in the following link was published Thursday March 16 in the Enterprise news paper.
This is perfect!
I'm Brazilian and I agree with you, your place and your people are been destroyed by american interests...
We pray together for the peace around the world...
Juliana
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